Iron Sights CCW

[coelacanth]

All of mine are iron-sights only. That's how I train and plan the carrying strategy. I have no plan of adding dots.

My IA's ok with 1911 and I have the DW PM-7 on my permit now, but that's getting replaced with BG2.0 (also iron only) for practical reasons... I must say I'm a bit sad about it.

 

[.308/.431]

I have an optic on the pistol I carry the least. Irons on my main carry and the revolver on the permit.

I practice with the irons way more than the dot. The dot is far better to shoot, far worse to carry, so I put 80% of my practice time into the little pistol that’s comfortable to carry. And I find that getting better with irons translates to being better with the dot, but it doesn’t work as well the other way.

I shoot to the threat. I was always comfortable with my irons as I am with my instinctive skills in archery without using a sight system..

 

[chiroken007]

Or maybe they make the distance 25yrds to fail more people!

I thought once you get your CCW in any County it is good state wide? Did that change? I hope not. I live in San Mateo and cross Santa Clara County to get to Alameda County every day for work.

I believe he is referring to changing residence.

 

[dvoncock]

My main carry is a *gasp* j-frame snub nose with a trough rear sight and front XS big dot up front! Oh the humanity!

While I’m mostly carrying in the Stone Age I do have a hellcat pro with a green dot as well as a g19 on my permit.

We’re two peas in a pod! My main carry is also a J-frame snubbie with the rear trough. It has a front blade sight that I “tacticalized” with orange nail polish.

 

[Gawernator]

We’re two peas in a pod! My main carry is also a J-frame snubbie with the rear trough. It has a front blade sight that I “tacticalized” with orange nail polish.

Only one of us can be the 1930's detective, and it's not you attorney

 

[dvoncock]

Only one of us can be the 1930's detective, and it's not you attorney

Good burn!

 

[Vurtne]

Yes however if you ever get to combat like that IRL you will see how things go out the window lol

Practical shooting is practical shooting. Measured performance under pressure in competition is the best way to test this. If you can't do it in bloodless combat, then why would it be any different in a real scenario?

Dots are objectively better at all distances and the metrics for that exist. It's fine if you prefer irons, but dots are in fact better for fast acquisition and a far better training tool for the average person because the fundamentals of target focus are easier to understand.

 

[Gawernator]

Practical shooting is practical shooting. Measured performance under pressure in competition is the best way to test this. If you can't do it in bloodless combat, then why would it be any different in a real scenario?

Dots are objectively better at all distances and the metrics for that exist. It's fine if you prefer irons, but dots are in fact better for fast acquisition and a far better training tool for the average person because the fundamentals of target focus are easier to understand.

Idk, why did that guy FAFO when he tried to hit me with a metal baseball bat? I've never competed but I did serve 8 years in the military. Prob would be fun tho. Paper targets don't shoot back

My daily CCW is a Walther PDP Compact with a Trijicon RCR so idk why you are saying I prefer irons lmao. Dot is easy mode. Just doesn't make a difference in a real life CCW shooting which is probably closer than 7 yards

 

[Vurtne]

Idk, why did that guy FAFO when he tried to hit me with a metal baseball bat? I've never competed but I did serve 8 years in the military. Prob would be fun tho. Paper targets don't shoot back

My daily CCW is a Walther PDP Compact with a Trijicon RCR so idk why you are saying I prefer irons lmao. Dot is easy mode. Just doesn't make a difference in a real life CCW shooting which is probably closer than 7 yards

Competition is one of the best ways for you to discover how proficient you truly are with a firearm. There's a reason our T1 units hire competition/olympic shooters to teach them how to shoot.

 

[Hindsight]

Competition is one of the best ways for you to discover how proficient you truly are with a firearm. There's a reason our T1 units hire competition/olympic shooters to teach them how to shoot.

Pranka has some strong thoughts on this topic and has the ability to speak to both sides.

I think Ben went over this in a series of videos recently as well. An index is an index, one focal plane is easier than two to maintain target focus and aware of what your target is doing if you drew and have to decide their intentions in that moment, and color confirmation is a reliable way to have more accountability than pure “point shooting” but barely any slower. I’d rather lose .10 seconds most times and know where my shot is going to land and follow-up shots rather than shoot .10 seconds faster and be much less certain. Shot placement and hits on target are king.

 

[Gawernator]

Competition is one of the best ways for you to discover how proficient you truly are with a firearm. There's a reason our T1 units hire competition/olympic shooters to teach them how to shoot.

Yeah that's cool and all but has nothing to do with this thread Is this the iron sights on your CCW thread or the how to be in DEVGRU thread? lmao. If you have the time and funds to do that it's cool but unless it's your career or fav hobby it's not needed for an average ccw holder. Competition is among the best objective tests of firearms performance. Elite military units have long drawn lessons and instruction from world-class competitive shooters, although competition skill is only one component of combat proficiency.

 

[RustyIron]

Does anyone carry without a dot still?

My interest in putting a "dot" on a ccw gun approaches zero.

 

[dvoncock]

I have fortunately never been shot at or had to use a firearm in self-defense, so I’m not sure if the following analogy applies.

From age 6 to 18, I practiced martial arts, including sparring with other students, and tournaments as a teenager. Then, in my 20s, I found myself in street fights/confrontations on several occasions, including a gnarly two-on-one when some drunks groped a female acquittance, and another where someone pulled a gun on me. Psychologically, those situations were nothing like training because of the fear factor.

Bringing it back to the topic, I don’t have red dots on my CCW pieces, because I train for defensive point shooting at 21 feet or less with small-ass pistols that I can actually carry concealed.

I agree, that red dots are wonderful for faster target acquisition with one huge caveat: if your fundamentals suck, a Holosun ain’t gonna make you John Wick, because a limp wrist and/or grip is still going to throw your shots.

Would I try a red dot on duty size handgun for home defense? Probably! Do I feel that they justify the added weight, size, complexity for my personal CCW situation and skill level? Nope!

 

[Gawernator]

I have fortunately never been shot at or had to use a firearm in self-defense, so I’m not sure if the following analogy applies.

From age 6 to 18, I practiced martial arts, including sparring with other students, and tournaments as a teenager. Then, in my 20s, I found myself in street fights/confrontations on several occasions, including a gnarly two-on-one when some drunks groped a female acquittance, and another where someone pulled a gun on me. Psychologically, those situations were nothing like training because of the fear factor.

Bringing it back to the topic, I don’t have red dots on my CCW pieces, because I train for defensive point shooting at 21 feet or less with small-ass pistols that I can actually carry concealed.

I agree, that red dots are wonderful for faster target acquisition with one huge caveat: if your fundamentals suck, a Holosun ain’t gonna make you John Wick, because a limp wrist and/or grip is still going to throw your shots.

Would I try a red dot on duty size handgun for home defense? Probably! Do I feel that they justify the added weight, size, complexity for my personal CCW situation and skill level? Nope!

Just hang out in North Hollywood for a while, something will pop off

 

[lactoast]

Or maybe they make the distance 25yrds to fail more people!

I thought once you get your CCW in any County it is good state wide? Did that change? I hope not. I live in San Mateo and cross Santa Clara County to get to Alameda County every day for work.

Yes it's still good statewide as far as I know, what I was referring to was how if you are moving counties after getting your CCW, your new host county requires you to apply for their CCW if you want to conceal carry -- even if your current CCW is still valid and unexpired.

Just to bleed you of your money even more, really.

 

[Vurtne]

Yeah that's cool and all but has nothing to do with this thread Is this the iron sights on your CCW thread or the how to be in DEVGRU thread? lmao. If you have the time and funds to do that it's cool but unless it's your career or fav hobby it's not needed for an average ccw holder. Competition is among the best objective tests of firearms performance. Elite military units have long drawn lessons and instruction from world-class competitive shooters, although competition skill is only one component of combat proficiency.

Less we forget, firearms proficiency relative to carrying a gun puts you at a higher standard. If you carry a gun for protection or work, you should be performing like an M/GM.

Saying point shooting is good enough as a standard is definitely not okay.

Every gun owner should compete. It’s very accessible and not resource restrictive.

 

[Gawernator]

Less we forget, firearms proficiency relative to carrying a gun puts you at a higher standard. If you carry a gun for protection or work, you should be performing like an M/GM.

Saying point shooting is good enough as a standard is definitely not okay.

Every gun owner should compete. It’s very accessible and not resource restrictive.

Yeah and every motorcycle owner should have a 1 piece kangaroo suit and do a trackday every month. Nice in theory but not practical in reality.

 

[lactoast]

Less we forget, firearms proficiency relative to carrying a gun puts you at a higher standard. If you carry a gun for protection or work, you should be performing like an M/GM.

Wasn't there an incident a few weeks ago or so about Pasadena PD officers accidentally shooting each other while messing around? If regular folk who want to carry should be performing like M/GMs, I would hope actual sworn peace officers are held to higher standards.

 

[Vurtne]

Wasn't there an incident a few weeks ago or so about Pasadena PD officers accidentally shooting each other while messing around? If regular folk who want to carry should be performing like M/GMs, I would hope actual sworn peace officers are held to higher standards.

Yep. That’s why I said for protection or work. The current bar is far too low for all aspects. Anyone who has attended their mandatory CCW classes have seen the horrors. Most people probably shouldn’t carry a gun; perhaps that’s a hot take.

 

[Gawernator]

Yep. That’s why I said for protection or work. The current bar is far too low for all aspects. Anyone who has attended their mandatory CCW classes have seen the horrors. Most people probably shouldn’t carry a gun; perhaps that’s a hot take.

Driving a car is much more dangerous and the bar is there is no bar