Stock Market & Economy is getting wrecked

[jhsd20]

the thing is those issues have underlying motivations that won't be solved in this way. People immigrate here because we hire them. I don't see camps of Central Americans without jobs anywhere I see them being hired by every industry from meat packing to restaurants to construction you name it. The raging right wingers happily hire these guys...

This post nails it. Rampant illegal immigration is a symptom of the problem, not the cause. Same for fentanyl trafficking... it keeps coming because Americans keep buying it and it stays profitable. Its not that China just employs a bunch of cheap labor and brute forces it... their manufacturing is actually state of the art and ours is way behind. Every Chinese university and polytechnic has majors on bulk manufacturing and pipeline management. not a single American university does - we focus on design over manufacturing, and that's not even looking at liberal arts.
Lucas Botkin of Trex Arms (who is as far from a lefty as you can get) has stated that Mexican textile manufacturing is far ahead of US, and that he has all his goods made in US to promote American made, not because it's inherently superior.
Nobody here is saying that the problems Trump is addressing don't need addressing. We are concerned that he is dunking the country into the deep end before it's learned to swim, because there's a real risk of drowning.

 

[Jimi Jah]

Reciprocal tariffs will level the playing field. Once countries realize they all pay the same amount they will go down or go away. Any benefit goes away when both sides even out.

Some countries will keep them as it's a major source of government income. Our country survived on them here until the income tax amendment passed. When it did the tax rate was 1%. Our own country rips us off far more than any tariff.

 

[46knuck]

Relax this is just another ride on the roller-coaster of life in economics. If anything it is time for a buy of a good company. I remember just a few years ago it was a big deal when the Dow hit 30,000, today it is just a hair over 40,000 after a sell off!

Trump knows what he is doing, think of this as just a re boot before things really take off. We will hit 50k at the Dow well before he leaves office and some of you will be sorry you sat on the sidelines clutching your pearls or your worry beads.

 

[ikeo1]

Trump knows what he is doing, think of this as just a re boot before things really take off. We will hit 50k at the Dow well before he leaves office and some of you will be sorry you sat on the sidelines clutching your pearls or your worry beads.

I think it’s more than that. If we know what he’s doing then we can benefit from it directly vs indirectly. With every administration there are going to be winners and losers. We came off a high in the stock market and came down while it shifts towards this administrations agenda. Being able to discuss it and rather than hope is what helped me to achieve a level of financial freedom I have now and the time to build this place.

I will say I’m glad that this kind of discourse can be had without it breaking down into name calling. It’s almost as if adults are discussing a subject that affects us all and can do something in our personal lives about it to help our position.

 

[JohntheBaptized]

Look into the Great Melt Up theory.

In falls like this it’s time to buy because things are on sale. The market will always rise over time and likely beat previous prices. But you have to know when a good price is present to buy because even overpaying for a good one is bad advice. All of last year was a bad time to buy stocks and not play with options.

 

[Jimi Jah]

Gold almost hit $3000 today. Our dollar is continuing to loose value.

 

[Jcwatchdog]

This post nails it. Rampant illegal immigration is a symptom of the problem, not the cause. Same for fentanyl trafficking... it keeps coming because Americans keep buying it and it stays profitable. Its not that China just employs a bunch of cheap labor and brute forces it... their manufacturing is actually state of the art and ours is way behind. Every Chinese university and polytechnic has majors on bulk manufacturing and pipeline management. not a single American university does - we focus on design over manufacturing, and that's not even looking at liberal arts.
Lucas Botkin of Trex Arms (who is as far from a lefty as you can get) has stated that Mexican textile manufacturing is far ahead of US, and that he has all his goods made in US to promote American made, not because it's inherently superior.
Nobody here is saying that the problems Trump is addressing don't need addressing. We are concerned that he is dunking the country into the deep end before it's learned to swim, because there's a real risk of drowning.

That’s sort of what I meant by we let things get out of hand with illegal immigration. Sure companies hire them, because 1. They’re here and cheap labor, and 2. The issue isn’t taken seriously so there aren’t any repercussions. Everyone is so cavalier about it. It’s not a big deal. Maybe now it will be.

With China, that should have been cut off years ago. We had no problem cutting off Russia for human rights abuses/military incursions, but China, no way. They can do whatever they want, because we need their cheap junk. We let them get to where they are. Now it’s either let them continue or deal with the problem. Is it just too far gone to do anything about it now?

But the overall problem with the economy started before Trump’s first term. When our debt went past the value of what we produce, that’s a problem. But everyone seemed to have put blinders on as long as the Dow is on an upward trend.

 

[WretchedBadger]

This post nails it. Rampant illegal immigration is a symptom of the problem, not the cause. Same for fentanyl trafficking... it keeps coming because Americans keep buying it and it stays profitable. Its not that China just employs a bunch of cheap labor and brute forces it... their manufacturing is actually state of the art and ours is way behind. Every Chinese university and polytechnic has majors on bulk manufacturing and pipeline management. not a single American university does - we focus on design over manufacturing, and that's not even looking at liberal arts.
Lucas Botkin of Trex Arms (who is as far from a lefty as you can get) has stated that Mexican textile manufacturing is far ahead of US, and that he has all his goods made in US to promote American made, not because it's inherently superior.
Nobody here is saying that the problems Trump is addressing don't need addressing. We are concerned that he is dunking the country into the deep end before it's learned to swim, because there's a real risk of drowning.

Exactly this.

 

[ikeo1]

With China, that should have been cut off years ago. We had no problem cutting off Russia for human rights abuses/military incursions, but China, no way. They can do whatever they want, because we need their cheap junk. We let them get to where they are. Now it’s either let them continue or deal with the problem. Is it just too far gone to do anything about it now?

Did China come here or did American's setup shop there? This is what I hear a lot from people who've never been to Asia. They have cheap goods, but they are also way more sophisticated now after investing in education, manufacturing, and society. There's a difference. In the US, we invest in corporations and business. The grass is greener where you water it. Like India who also invested heavily in education in the 2000's is also seeing their yield in educated workforces, where education was slashed here. Colleges are still good but basic education is not very high quality unless you live in areas that invest in education.

IMO, public education is the single best government investment you can do for a society. An educated workforce is a strong workforce. This is why many companies go overseas and have been for awhile. If you look at things from a macro level view, some of the top products and lowest prices with high quality come from China now. It's not like it was 20-40 years ago. Their society has leap frogged in advancement because of the investments they've made. It's one of the reasons, I think Trump respects Xi and won't say anything negative to him directly.

I travel a bit and have seen the growth and differences across several countries. It's just my anecdotal perspective working in the tech industry as well. If you go to China, you'll see that their middle class is much bigger than America's now. Citizens here are raided by Corporations & Government State and Federal. This coming from a person who trained my replacements from India, China, Australia, & Poland before I got laid off by American companies who are led by those support the current administration.

For instance, would you pay for a 100k Jeep/Dodge/Ford? It's American made.

But the overall problem with the economy started before Trump’s first term. When our debt went past the value of what we produce, that’s a problem. But everyone seemed to have put blinders on as long as the Dow is on an upward trend.

Yes, 2000 and 2008 By both parties and Iraq/Afghanistan. The trillion dollar war where people called others traitors and created freedom fries and the Great financial crisis during Bush Jr.'s term. I remember that well. Worked for a startup company in 2007/2008, during that period. Use these times to your advantage. Doesn't matter who's in charge, people will make money. Elon, Zuckerburg, Bezos never cared who the President was they always made money under whoever every year.

Be like rich people, my friend - Bruce Lee

 

[Niccom]

I’m just gonna say as a young person I have no idea what to invest or do to secure my future. All of this craziness that’s happening makes it very hard to understand. No one teaches finances in public education. I don’t work at a company that offers any retirement. Everything seems futile and have no idea where to start.

 

[jhsd20]

I’m just gonna say as a young person I have no idea what to invest or do to secure my future. All of this craziness that’s happening makes it very hard to understand. No one teaches finances in public education. I don’t work at a company that offers any retirement. Everything seems futile and have no idea where to start.

A good place to start is your bank. Ask if they have investment options such as mutual funds. if you put some savings in Large Cap Mutual funds from Schwab or JP Morgan chase you can think of them as higher yield savings accounts over time. They are fairly diversified and while this limits their growth potential, it also limits their risk. You are basically investing in the US economy as a whole instead of a particular company. Set it and don't look at it until at least 5 years later while you develop your career.

There has almost never been a 10 year period in American history where diversified investments are worth less than they started. this is different from trying to make short term gains, in which you do have to watch the market and sell high.

 

[WretchedBadger]

Did China come here or did American's setup shop there? This is what I hear a lot from people who've never been to Asia. They have cheap goods, but they are also way more sophisticated now after investing in education, manufacturing, and society. There's a difference. In the US, we invest in corporations and business. The grass is greener where you water it. Like India who also invested heavily in education in the 2000's is also seeing their yield in educated workforces, where education was slashed here. Colleges are still good but basic education is not very high quality unless you live in areas that invest in education.

There are these moments in life where an idea gets put into my head that I've never thought about or had to think about before. I was on RedNote for a minute there and this lady was asked something to the effect of "why are all the products that come from China garbage?" Now my entire life that's all I've ever heard as well and so I never really paid much attention to it because, yeah stuff from China tends to be cheaply made. She said "which of these things sounds correct to you: that everything made in China is cheap and garbage or that the American importers are buying the cheapest products they can with the highest margins so they can make the most profit?" Yeah. That makes way more sense now. I knew that we import stuff etc etc but for some reason I never really thought about it like that.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

I’m just gonna say as a young person I have no idea what to invest or do to secure my future. All of this craziness that’s happening makes it very hard to understand. No one teaches finances in public education. I don’t work at a company that offers any retirement. Everything seems futile and have no idea where to start.

As a young person, all you need to do is contribute monthly to an employer-sponsored retirement account like a 401K or 457b. Also, open a Fidelity Roth IRA. Then, invest in large-cap index fund ETFs like VOO. If all you do is put your money into VOO, you will be doing better than 90% of people. It's that simple. Just do not touch it.

 

[dudelookinguy]

I’m just gonna say as a young person I have no idea what to invest or do to secure my future. All of this craziness that’s happening makes it very hard to understand. No one teaches finances in public education. I don’t work at a company that offers any retirement. Everything seems futile and have no idea where to start.

I would recommend checking out the book (bad title, but good book) I Will Teach You to be Rich by Ramit Sethi. Short, helps you set up basic financial literacy super easily. It will not teach you how to pick stocks, but does help getting financially stable. Right now cash is being devalued, but a high yield savings account with an emergency fund of ~3 months expenses is very very good to have.

 

[dudelookinguy]

Did China come here or did American's setup shop there? This is what I hear a lot from people who've never been to Asia. They have cheap goods, but they are also way more sophisticated now after investing in education, manufacturing, and society. There's a difference. In the US, we invest in corporations and business. The grass is greener where you water it. Like India who also invested heavily in education in the 2000's is also seeing their yield in educated workforces, where education was slashed here. Colleges are still good but basic education is not very high quality unless you live in areas that invest in education.

IMO, public education is the single best government investment you can do for a society. An educated workforce is a strong workforce. This is why many companies go overseas and have been for awhile. If you look at things from a macro level view, some of the top products and lowest prices with high quality come from China now. It's not like it was 20-40 years ago. Their society has leap frogged in advancement because of the investments they've made. It's one of the reasons, I think Trump respects Xi and won't say anything negative to him directly.

I travel a bit and have seen the growth and differences across several countries. It's just my anecdotal perspective working in the tech industry as well. If you go to China, you'll see that their middle class is much bigger than America's now. Citizens here are raided by Corporations & Government State and Federal. This coming from a person who trained my replacements from India, China, Australia, & Poland before I got laid off by American companies who are led by those support the current administration.

For instance, would you pay for a 100k Jeep/Dodge/Ford? It's American made.


Yes, 2000 and 2008 By both parties and Iraq/Afghanistan. The trillion dollar war where people called others traitors and created freedom fries and the Great financial crisis during Bush Jr.'s term. I remember that well. Worked for a startup company in 2007/2008, during that period. Use these times to your advantage. Doesn't matter who's in charge, people will make money. Elon, Zuckerburg, Bezos never cared who the President was they always made money under whoever every year.

Be like rich people, my friend - Bruce Lee

I think you're correct that letting public edu languish is once of the biggest missteps the US has made. Ray Dalio, founder of one of the top hedge funds in the world, studied empires in decline and found that declining investment of public education and unending military expansion were two of the biggest factors in societies that are past their peak and have entered decline. excerpt from the book in video form here -

 

[ikeo1]

I’m just gonna say as a young person I have no idea what to invest or do to secure my future. All of this craziness that’s happening makes it very hard to understand. No one teaches finances in public education. I don’t work at a company that offers any retirement. Everything seems futile and have no idea where to start.

I'm really glad to see young folks like yourself chiming in. For starters, index funds are your best friend while you build up and learn. This isn’t financial advice but I like to break it up into slow, medium, fast investments with corresponding risk tolerances. Fast = higher risk slow = low risk. In the beginning, learning how to save will do wonders for you in the future.

Good luck and ask questions! I’m sure people will give you plenty of leads to start researching! Investing is a marathon so you have time on your side. I’ve lost it all during the great financial crisis and rebuilt afterwards. Learn resiliency and you’ll be fine.

 

[Walmart_AR15]

People says they wish Trump just tell us what he is thinking and doing, what strategy is he implementing so we can plan accordingly. Well, if known so will our adversaries in this trade adjustment/reset. How much negotiation leverage will he have if he would show his hand?

Every trading partners we have around the world are taking advantage of us. People at the top are racking it in and for common folks we just want cheap so to satisfied that unquenchable thirst of consumption. We borrow money to stay afloat, and borrows , more every year. We no longer have a solid manufacturing base and economy depends on service industry. Real wealth are created by turning stuff dug out of the ground into useful products.

 

[9mmContagion]

And back up it goes….

 

[DJD100]

And back up it goes….

Nah, today is just expected noise in very uncertain times due to the raging amateurs at the top, and unless the major tariff's are rescinded to some degree I don't expect the market to fully recover until they are.

Tariffs themselves are not the problem, it's the amateurish application of them all at once with no regard for allies vs enemies that's the problem, and the non-oligarch's among us will be the ones who feel the pain the worst.

Tariffs need to be applied to the worst offenders and non-allies first, i.e. they should be used as a scalpel rather than as a chain saw.

 

[ikeo1]

When

And back up it goes….

you fall 3000+ and it comes back 800 I wouldn’t say it’s a rebound unless it makes you feel better I guess. Could be a dead cat bounce. Or as we said rich people jumping in to buy some before another leg down. For another swoop in.

Again this mainly hurts retirees and people laid off not the ultra wealthy who already have crazy cash stockpiles. It creates more wealth separation. IMO

Once current stock runs out and new stock comes in at the higher rate. That’s when we’ll see the real effect on consumers. Right now it’s still all headlines and narratives. There’s still a window if this is a negotiation tactic to turn it back. But considering globally deals are being shifted around if this is the new norm, then other countries are going to reorganize/adjust to prepare for this type of impulse action 6-12-24 months from now.

If he’s doing this much 2 months in, you kinda have to expect more later. I’d be surprised if other world leaders don’t plan around this for the next few years.