Reality Check

[Mil-Dot]

Imagine the states that have ZERO requirements...

I can imagine, there are what 25? Maybe 26 now i lost track. Must be nice for that half of the country where lawless hasn't run rampant from lack of governmental overreaching.

 

[JackRydden224]

It’s true that most people can’t shoot for . Every time I got my local indoor range I see dudes who can’t group anything at 5 yards.

However, considering how unlikely it is for civilians to actually draw and fire we are all gonna be okay statistically speaking. I mean what are the chances that two or more people draw on a bad guy at the same time but one the guys who drew is so incompetent that he shoots the wrong target ?

 

[bbp00]

while not infringing on anyone’s rights to acquire and keep firearms in their homes.

It infringes on rights to bear arms.

 

[steves86ta]

It wasn’t a ccw class, but I shot a Match a few weeks ago and was a complete disaster

Nothing ‘unsafe’ but holy crap I looked like I had no idea what I was doing. Also first time at this match with these people I’ve never met.

It had been a few months since i had done any shooting. And I guess nerves cause most of these people were really good.

In my defense by the third stage we discovered my rear sight was loose and moving around….

Fixed that and the rest of the match I was better but definitely not on par for me. I did end up having one malfunction and I cleared it very quickly because that’s something I have practiced for years. The RO made a comment how well I did it.

I only offer this story as sort of an alternate opinion on some people’s performance during their qual. They may be fairly proficient just having an off day for various reasons.

For what it’s worth I shot another match yesterday and actually won my class. So at least in my case. It was just an off day.

 

[raellic]

My CCW qualification was the most amount of negligence I have seen in a long time. Nobody wanted to stand next to this one guy who was totally incompetent in every area, and I ended up having to stand next to him. He loaded a magazine and the gun wouldn't fire despite about five attempts at reloading. Finally the instructor came over and looked at the ammunition and said: "you're trying to shoot .380 from a 9mm gun. What the hell-- you don't check to make sure you're even loading the right caliber in the magazine?" He was still allowed to qualify, and I can't believe he passed. I was sweating when this guy was shooting. These are not enthusiasts who are competent and careful, or even who visit this website. Many are regular people who want a CCW and have no clue about shooting. There should be more training on gun handling and less on law, I think.

 

[FTSheartlesssYo]

I’d say at least half my CCW’s classes targets looked like they been hit by buckshot at 40 yards.

Mine by no standards was perfect but I’ve trained enough to be an okay shooter

 

[Jimi Jah]

1/2 the states have zero requirements. Is it the wild west in those states?

Excremento doesn't like guns. That's why we have so many restrictions.

 

[JamesL]

Regardless of the 2A debate, ultimately when carrying you owe it to yourself and your love ones to be competent with the firearm you carry. If you're made the conscious decision to jump through all the hoops of getting a CCW, your journey to improving yourself should be constant and ongoing. Seeing the qual as a check box with no need for further training is just setting yourself up for failure on possibly the worst day of your life.

 

[eaglemike]

I wish there was an easy way for people getting a CCW to understand/recognize the stress that comes from performing under pressure. A couple of USPSA matches, or a couple of good IDPA matches could be useful. Stuff that goes wrong, or doesn't work, is revealed when the buzzer goes off - including the brain and coordination.

 

[Seeed]

I can imagine, there are what 25? Maybe 26 now i lost track. Must be nice for that half of the country where lawless hasn't run rampant from lack of governmental overreaching.

What metrics or stats do you have that show this? I’m looking to be enlightened.

 

[BillSmith]

Not directly addressing the issue of non-qualifying...

From this link: https://www.americanconcealandcarry.com/chart-which-states-allow-the-permitless-carry-of-guns/

Currently, there are 21 states in the United States that have some form of permitless carry law. These states include Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

Each state has its own specific laws regarding permitless carry. For example, in Alaska and Vermont, individuals can carry firearms openly or concealed without a permit. In other states like Arizona and Wyoming, individuals can carry concealed firearms without a permit but must obtain a permit if they wish to carry concealed in certain locations, such as schools or government buildings.

That's enough research to quell my personal curiosity. Imagine there are a few states that have requirement to garner a permit however do not require range or demonstration to qualify.

 

[Mil-Dot]

What metrics or stats do you have that show this? I’m looking to be enlightened.

Try Google? Look up the crime rates in states that have constitutional carry there are 29 of them. They are no worse off and in fact most have less crime than states that require forced lisc. CA, has the strictest gun laws on the books and the state is riddled with crime. IL is 2nd and they are a show. NY MD NJ MA. All have a higher crime rates than most permitless states.

Point being criminals give zero fux. Why should law abiding citizens be forced to pay and jump through hoops to combat that problem? There is not a single answer you can give me to justify it hut hey you can try.

 

[Seeed]

Try Google? Look up the crime rates in states that have constitutional carry there are 29 of them. They are no worse off and in fact most have less crime than states that require forced lisc. CA, has the strictest gun laws on the books and the state is riddled with crime. IL is 2nd and they are a show. NY MD NJ MA. All have a higher crime rates than most permitless states.

Point being criminals give zero fux. Why should law abiding citizens be forced to pay and jump through hoops to combat that problem? There is not a single answer you can give me to justify it hut hey you can try.

You're making the claim. I'm asking for your sources. Otherwise it doesn't have any meaning. You don't define what "crime" is, are we talking violent crime, homicides? Crime involving a weapon? A firearm? Domestic violence? Burglary? Assault? White collar crime? Is it per capita? Throwing around opinions without data or detail to back up your claim means absolutely nothing. And Google is full of crap data and severely bias media. It's part of the problem we have in our society today. People on both sides throwing crap back and forth which is really just how they "feel" or what they're saturated with by whatever media source they're tuning into, evey hour, telling them to believe. I'm more than open and open minded enough to believe one narrative over another if it's backed by legitimate and consistent data sources.

 

[jarhead714]

You're making the claim. I'm asking for your sources. Otherwise it doesn't have any meaning. You don't define what "crime" is, are we talking violent crime, homicides? Crime involving a weapon? A firearm? Domestic violence? Burglary? Assault? White collar crime? Is it per capita? Throwing around opinions without data or detail to back up your claim means absolutely nothing. And Google is full of crap data and severely bias media. It's part of the problem we have in our society today. People on both sides throwing crap back and forth which is really just how they "feel" or what they're saturated with by whatever media source they're tuning into, evey hour, telling them to believe. I'm more than open and open minded enough to believe one narrative over another if it's backed by legitimate and consistent data sources.

You’re absolutely right, Google is completely biased, but it’s biased going the wrong way, meaning not our way, or at least MY way.

 

[Mil-Dot]

You're making the claim. I'm asking for your sources. Otherwise it doesn't have any meaning. You don't define what "crime" is, are we talking violent crime, homicides? Crime involving a weapon? A firearm? Domestic violence? Burgrary? Assault? White collar crime? Is it per capita? Throwing around opinions without data or detail to back up your claim means absolutely nothing. And Google is full of crap data and severely bias media. It's part of the problem we have in our society today. People on both sides throwing crap back and forth which is really just how they "feel" or what they're saturated with by whatever media source they're tuning into evey hour are telling them to believe. I'm more than open and open minded enough to believe one narrative over another if it's backed by legitimate and consistent data sources.

Federal crime statistics is the only thing im looking at because it is pretty much the only one referenced when ppl seem to give a an ask about statistics.

I do not have the time to go through state police records or all of the local PD cases that would be of public record. I am more than satisfied with just using the one source which does prove the point.

You are correct and i agree there is a lot of BS slung by both sides to fit there own narratives. Howver sifting through most of it and picking just 1 to look at there is ample evidence.

Also I am onlyn including all crimes that are violent, involve a weapon of any sort, rapes, and also yes home invasions, robbery pretty much anything that would lead to an encounter where self defense is warrented.

WHITE COLLAR as you mention i am leaving out because nobody needs a weapon to defend themselves against fraud.

As such I too am not biased enough to ignore facts or reason if it makes sense. If there is any legitimate reasons at all that would explain how a gov agency making me jump through hoops and pay hundreds of dollars every 2 years and having to justify my reasons for carrying a gun or a knife that doesn't involve self defense but had the ability to deny me on subjective reasons is unacceptable.

 

[Pythonfan]

If we cannot get the 11% tax eliminated....

Maybe, just maybe, we propose a ballot issue to redirect the 11% that we are forced to pay, towards state (us) funded training. I.e. ranges, classes, etc.

 

[jarhead714]

If we cannot get the 11% tax eliminated....

Maybe, just maybe, we propose a ballot issue to redirect the 11% that we are forced to pay, towards state (us) funded training. I.e. ranges, classes, etc.

It’s all going to the same place and always will so long as it exists; funding public employees so they can continue getting paid 30 years after they stopped “working.”

 

[treelogger]

Those words were/are in direct reference to the words that follow them. You and your mind are living and breathing. The U.S. Constitution is neither.

So tell us, what does "well regulated" (actually the whole prefatory clause) really mean? If you think it means nothing, then explain why it was written in there.

 

[jarhead714]

So tell us, what does "well regulated" (actually the whole prefatory clause) really mean? If you think it means nothing, then explain why it was written in there.

Nothing? It means everything. All the words (in plain English) mean something . Follow the trail and quit putting so much high fallutin critical thought into it.

 

[Seeed]

Federal crime statistics is the only thing im looking at because it is pretty much the only one referenced when ppl seem to give a an ask about statistics.

I do not have the time to go through state police records or all of the local PD cases that would be of public record. I am more than satisfied with just using the one source which does prove the point.

You are correct and i agree there is a lot of BS slung by both sides to fit there own narratives. Howver sifting through most of it and picking just 1 to look at there is ample evidence.

Also I am onlyn including all crimes that are violent, involve a weapon of any sort, rapes, and also yes home invasions, robbery pretty much anything that would lead to an encounter where self defense is warrented.

WHITE COLLAR as you mention i am leaving out because nobody needs a weapon to defend themselves against fraud.

As such I too am not biased enough to ignore facts or reason if it makes sense. If there is any legitimate reasons at all that would explain how a gov agency making me jump through hoops and pay hundreds of dollars every 2 years and having to justify my reasons for carrying a gun or a knife that doesn't involve self defense but had the ability to deny me on subjective reasons is unacceptable.

So where are these federal crime statistics? I’d like to see them.