Reality Check

[cobian1984]

Nice cherry-pick.

Not cherry-picking, just not overlooking a portion of the text out of convenience. It’s pretty well established that the Framers were very deliberate and intentional with the words they chose for the Constitution and its early Amendments, so we can’t simply choose to ignore what is a rather important phrase.

 

[jarhead714]

Not cherry-picking, just not overlooking a portion of the text out of convenience. It’s pretty well established that the Framers were very deliberate and intentional with the words they chose for the Constitution and its early Amendments, so we can’t simply choose to ignore what is a rather important phrase.

Those words were/are in direct reference to the words that follow them. You and your mind are living and breathing. The U.S. Constitution is neither.

 

[Mil-Dot]

So all of you "well regulated" ones think suppressing your 2A rights is fine? What is your proposed solution to fix the current situation?

Are you also in favor of suppressing any other of your other rights whole your at it. You can be jailed in the UK for social media posts is anyone in fair of that while we are starting? Or what about ignoring your right to avoid cruel and usual punishment?

Maybe you would like to waive your right to avoid self incrimination. As I have mentioned the responsibility is on us to be proficient with our firearms and practice to make sure you are. You shouldn't be denied that ability by making is so expensive and subjective to be able to.

It is a conundrum and I dont know what the right answer is but I sure dont think I should have to pay hundred of dollars every few years and waste hours sitting in front of a computer watching bs videos to be able to do so.

I take it upon myself and compete weekley as well as go and work on ccw drills at my range biweekly to maintain proficient levels with firearms. As I think we all should.

The government should not dictate whether I can because they didn't like a stupid good cause statement or now what a reference said.

 

[jarhead714]

There is a tremendous generational gap being demonstrated here. It’s evident that proper instruction in social studies, civics, and American history all but ceased about 3 decades ago.

 

[cobian1984]

So all of you "well regulated" ones think suppressing your 2A rights is fine? What is your proposed solution to fix the current situation?

Are you also in favor of suppressing any other of your other rights whole your at it. You can be jailed in the UK for social media posts is anyone in fair of that while we are starting? Or what about ignoring your right to avoid cruel and usual punishment?

Maybe you would like to waive your right to avoid self incrimination. As I have mentioned the responsibility is on us to be proficient with our firearms and practice to make sure you are. You shouldn't be denied that ability by making is so expensive and subjective to be able to.

It is a conundrum and I dont know what the right answer is but I sure dont think I should have to pay hundred of dollars every few years and waste hours sitting in front of a computer watching bs videos to be able to do so.

I take it upon myself and compete weekley as well as go and work on ccw drills at my range biweekly to maintain proficient levels with firearms. As I think we all should.

The government should dictate whether I can because they didnt like a stupid good cause statement or now what a reference said.

I agree the current process is irrationally cumbersome and inconsistent, and needs a thorough overhaul. Nowhere did I say that I would ever be in favor of infringing on anyone’s rights, and I also don’t know what the “correct” answer is, but I just know that I see way too many people who are ill equipped to effectively handle a firearm in a real world setting, and the bar to getting a CCW in terms of training is rather low. Like you, I train frequently and do my best to ensure that I’m not a danger to my own safety or that of others. I always encourage those in my orbit to do the same so they can confidently and competently handle firearms as well. I’m also not shy about telling some of those folks that they really have no business carrying a loaded weapon based on their currently level of proficiency, but to keep working to develop the skill set.

 

[shroom]

2A does contain the words “well regulated” so to me at least it seems reasonable to ask people to undergo proper training and demonstrate proficiency

Should be a class in school. Soviet Union did it, think Russia reintroduced it recently.

Would also help with educating people on guns in general. Maybe we'd have less horse like handgun rosters and """assault weapon""" bans.

 

[Rob801]

A lot of people are getting CCW due to peers or media or "too be cool". Many of them probably live lives that would see minimal to no violence ever.

This is why I would want Open Carry. I would at least know which dumbasses are gunowners to stay away from. Without it, these dumbasses are carrying without you knowing, and you might catch a stray bullet from the dumbass next to you.

I am one of those who see minimal to no violence… isn’t that the way we actually want it? I’m not out in the nightlife, or cruising bad areas of L.A (though I don’t need to go too far to be in a bad area). I’m not so concerned about getting carjacked or robbed (not that I’m not aware of my surroundings).

I’m not getting my CCW because I expect to be in a conflict. I sincerely hope I never need to draw my weapon in what is left of my lifetime (I’m 60)… BUT, when I am out riding, I find myself in some very remote areas where there is no help and no cell service so I need to be able to fend for myself.

Hell even the “old ridge route” between the 138 and Castaic can seem isolated af when you’re on it alone (cool un-maintained apocalypse type road ). In the off chance I should come across someone that may do me harm, I don’t want to end up like that poor couple that got knifed to death on a trailhead in Arkansas.

Pretty much everyone I know just carries loaded in their vehicle anyway… I just know that if I did it, I’d somehow be the one to get caught/cited or worse.

I’m doing this (mostly) so I can carry a loaded firearm on the road legally and don’t need to be worried about it if I get pulled over.

I work at a large high school so “actual” edc isn’t a reality for me.

I’m a marine vet, and take carrying seriously… as soon as I get my AIWB holster (on order) I will be doing the CCW drills regularly (have basic firearm/range safety down of course, and am a decent shot).

 

[Toshiro Mifune]

Just my $0.02, I think that the ones who say they are 'all in' ignore those words in the amendment or feel it doesn't apply.

Or we know what it actually means and it is not what you suggest.

 

[Hamburger Monster]

This is how I was taught what the 2A means

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State. This is the part tht informs you why the right is important

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms. This is the actual Right.

shall not be infringed. This is instructions to the government about said right

Therefore, each individual does not need to be "well regulated", but for the security of a free state it is necessary that the militias are.

It was so that each person was capable of acquiring and having with one arms. So, in the event it was necessary, the people could form a militia to defend the state. And the government has no authority to limit this right. It's the only right listed with such a statement

I would love to see people take it upon themselves to get the proper training and become more proficient in firearms. But I would absolutely disagree with this coming from the government, Or at least some kind of restrictions if one doesn't do as the government demands.

I think it's something that needs to be a cultural shift to make it more acceptable that someone wants to learn. More encouragement and availability.

If one in every hundred person's concealed or open carried. And one in every hundred looked to do harm with a gun to his fellow citizen, that's a pretty low odds that the carry holder will be around when the criminal wants to criminal. If only half of the citizens carried, the odds are dramatically improved that the criminal won't be able to do much before being stopped

That's why I support full open or concealed with no restrictions

 

[DB>)>]

RE: driving...

Y'all should go to the local DMV....

The State finally asked me to come in and (re)take the written test last year, after probably 40+ years "on the road". It was nearing cutoff time to take the test, and they had kept me waiting so long they didn't want to let me take the test, I finally talked them into it, guaranteeing I could pass the test well before "closing time", which I did, no problemo.

I watched the other "prospective drivers" taking long times, and many failing the written test.... judging from what I saw, the majority should have been "Uber banished" for life... If they couldn't pass the simple "written" test, one could only imagine what they would be like behind the wheel of a "deadly weapon"!

It's dangerous out there, stay alert, be careful! We aren't growing the most capable "citizens", and while it's vital to protect 2A rights, we also have to be conscious of noob shooters, and where possible help "responsibilize" 'em! We all started somewhere. and all probably have made mistakes, a little guidance goes a long way.

And don't forget that schools used to teach kids things like firearm safety and marksmanship instead of "how to pick a pronoun"... we ain't raising the best citizens anymore, and MUCH remedial education is typically required for real life "adulting" skills

 

[bbp00]

2A does contain the words “well regulated” so to me at least it seems reasonable to ask people to undergo proper training and demonstrate proficiency before being trusted to carry a weapon in public. Otherwise an unprepared person can pose a significant threat to the public at large.

Is that a joke? Or, you're actually serious?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

 

[bbp00]

Yes because driving is a privilege not a right.

Do you think flying is a privilege or a right?

 

[Mil-Dot]

Do you think flying is a privilege or a right?

Flying is also a privilege which can be easily revoked when asking like an arse. And before you ask so is traveling by train or by bus. Any means of public transportation is a privilege and you are entitled to utilize it u til proven unfit.

 

[Bigger Hammer]

Has anyone seen an instructor fail a student?

One county we do requals for allows up to 5 guns to be placed on the permit. I don't recall certifying even one student on all 5 guns. We frequently send people home for safety violations.

CCW requals are my least favorite class to teach. It's as if some people haven't touched their guns since 1-2 years ago, when they last qual'd. In every class there's at least one, sometimes several, students who load their magazines with the bullets facing to the rear.

It's disheartening to see people who can't remember how their guns function trying to qual for their permit. The level of competency is very low.

 

[Mil-Dot]

I've seen some students who should fail but never know if they did. I remember 1 who didnt even pass the written test when I took my initial class.

 

[bbp00]

Flying is also a privilege which can be easily revoked when asking like an arse. And before you ask so is traveling by train or by bus. Any means of public transportation is a privilege and you are entitled to utilize it u til proven unfit.

49 U.S. Code § 40103 - Sovereignty and use of airspace
(a)Sovereignty and Public Right of Transit.—
(1) The United States Government has exclusive sovereignty of airspace of the United States.
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace.

Supreme court long held that travel by common means of transportation is a right.
Driving a car on public roads is a right (albeit regulated) and states have right to regulate certain aspects like licensing, registration speed limits, etc. Some thing are regulated by feds.
And as is with flying, you can lose these rights if you do something you shouldn't.

 

[cobian1984]

Is that a joke? Or, you're actually serious?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

I’m referring specifically to carrying a loaded weapon in public. Is the public any safer (i.e. the reason for the Amendment’s existence in the first place) if someone who is otherwise incapable of safely handling that loaded firearm is carrying it around with them? Or would we all actually be a bit safer if they had to demonstrate some reasonable level of proficiency with it first? SCOTUS has ruled repeatedly that “reasonable” regulations are acceptable so long as they don’t violate the core tenets of the Amendment. CCW training seems, to me at least, to be a reasonable way to help ensure public safety while not infringing on anyone’s rights to acquire and keep firearms in their homes. As several others have noted, it’s cringeworthy to see the level of ineptitude on display in so many CCW qualification sessions, and some folks need a lot more practice before they can safely carry in public.

 

[GunHoHulk]

I’m referring specifically to carrying a loaded weapon in public. Is the public any safer (i.e. the reason for the Amendment’s existence in the first place) if someone who is otherwise incapable of safely handling that loaded firearm is carrying it around with them? Or would we all actually be a bit safer if they had to demonstrate some reasonable level of proficiency with it first? SCOTUS has ruled repeatedly that “reasonable” regulations are acceptable so long as they don’t violate the core tenets of the Amendment. CCW training seems, to me at least, to be a reasonable way to help ensure public safety while not infringing on anyone’s rights to acquire and keep firearms in their homes. As several others have noted, it’s cringeworthy to see the level of ineptitude on display in so many CCW qualification sessions, and some folks need a lot more practice before they can safely carry in public.

While an incompetent individual does pose a relative public safety threat the greater threat is giving regulatory powers to government bureaucrats that have personal agendas that drive them. They have proven time and time again that many of them are incapable of acting within reasonable parameters. I’ll take the threat of an incompetent individual over that of a government run amuck.

 

[aema15]

Has anyone seen an instructor fail a student?

Saw a guy fail with his M&P shield at qual. Turns out the CCW class was his first firearms class, and the shield was his one and only gun. He didn't know how to field strip and clean it. Also found out he was attempting to qual for a guard card too. Instructor didn't bother letting him attempt after failing him for CCW. Dude was flagging us and finger was on the trigger while reholstering and whatnot. Quite a disaster.

Another guy passed with either a P365 or Hellcat but failed with some kind of subcompact revolver. His shots were apparently all over the place at distance.

 

[Seeed]

Imagine the states that have ZERO requirements...