Magazine Safety Removal Legality on CCW Pistols

[Dvrjon]

Thanks. I saw the stuff on caliber and their list of reasons to deny, but that's it. I don't want to submit a question to their email box, as that's just inviting someone in their office to start making their own policy. Hence my asking if there was any other written policy I need to be aware of.

Just wanted to be sure there wasn't something I'm missing, as I've got the California compliant P365. That requires removal of the magazine disconnect to be compatible with most 365 grips.

Why do you want to change grips?

I put XTech Tactical (https://www.xtechtactical.com/product/mtx-365-plus0-grip-extender-for-p365/) MTX 365 “0+” grip extensions on mine and they made a world of difference.

For the record, mag disconnect devices (MDD) are stupid for a combat weapon (although the venerable Browning Hi-Power had on and the British SAS found them acceptable). They are designed to keep morons from accidentally shooting folks after they drop the mag and don’t clear the chamber. Don’t do that.

In a self-defense shooting, the fundamental question is whether or not it was a good shooting. If it was, the MDD is a non-issue…no one was accidentally shot. UNLESS your IA has made it an issue. However, any removal of a “safety system” or other change from factory specs will generate questions.

 

[Natai]

Why do you want to change grips?

I put XTech Tactical (https://www.xtechtactical.com/product/mtx-365-plus0-grip-extender-for-p365/) MTX 365 “0+” grip extensions on mine and they made a world of difference.

For the record, mag disconnect devices (MDD) are stupid for a combat weapon (although the venerable Browning Hi-Power had on and the British SAS found them acceptable). They are designed to keep morons from accidentally shooting folks after they drop the mag and don’t clear the chamber. Don’t do that.

In a self-defense shooting, the fundamental question is whether or not it was a good shooting. If it was, the MDD is a non-issue…no one was accidentally shot. UNLESS your IA has made it an issue. However, any removal of a “safety system” or other change from factory specs will generate questions.

First off, thanks for the link. That may prove useful, and a buddy of mine has the same gun and may like that option as well.
Second, I haven't decided about changing the grip - more just exploring my options. But there are two main reasons I'm considering it:

1) One of the draws of the 365 is that it's very modular. Swap the grips and slide, even the barrel, and you've gone from the 365 to a 365XL or a 365 Macro. If you can't use 95% of the available grips because of a single, easily removable part (that itself provides little to no benefit and may even cause other issues), that kind of defeats the point.

2) The other has to do with actually shooting it. I want my support hand to be able to maintain solid contact with the grip, and that will be easier with a larger grip (width, rather than length). Still debating if that will be worth the tradeoff in terms of concealability.

 

[1911-CV]

Talk with your Issuing Agency before modifying your CCW guns. San Bernardino Sheriff does not want any California safeties disabled/removed.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Talk with your Issuing Agency before modifying your CCW guns. San Bernardino Sheriff does not want any California safeties disabled/removed.

See post #18.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I won’t modify a firearm from stock config with the exception of sights. Thus, if I don’t want an LCI or a mag disconnect I would either buy a new firearm that doesn’t have one OR get a used model before such features were added onto a model. If I don’t like the trigger pull on a factory firearm after shooting it a bunch to let parts wear in, I’d get a different firearm type rather than modify the trigger. It’s a very conservative approach I know but that is just how I am on many things.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

My county specifically says you can NOT modify the safety mechanisms.

Looks like from cococo quali sub section

 

[No_glonks]

That's what my IA says. I take it as if I had my qualifications with removed mag disconnect it's ok

 

[NorCalBusa]

That's what my IA says. I take it as if I had my qualifications with removed mag disconnect it's ok

View attachment 133770

Odd it says "Possessing" and not "Possessing while CCW". I'd ask the IA to clean up the language. Details matter.

 

[ushiro]

In my non professional opinion doing so will give one more thing for the lawyer to fight you.

 

[drinktothat421]

If removing your mag disconnect lands you in jail on a legitimate self defense shooting. Ill take those odds. I use to hsve no issue with the disconnect, then decided if that were fail or lock up your gun its better to not have it. Were as none most seem to lock the tigger. But my m&p 1.0 it actually. Disconnect the tigger (pull the tigger back no click)

 

[1911-CV]

What if you were just stopped and your IA says your firearm is not legitimately on your CCW permit because of the modification? Far more likely than having to use it for self-defense...

If removing your mag disconnect lands you in jail on a legitimate self defense shooting. Ill take those odds. I use to hsve no issue with the disconnect, then decided if that were fail or lock up your gun its better to not have it. Were as none most seem to lock the tigger. But my m&p 1.0 it actually. Disconnect the tigger (pull the tigger back no click)

 

[drinktothat421]

What if you were just stopped and your IA says your firearm is not legitimately on your CCW permit because of the modification? Far more likely than having to use it for self-defense...

Talking to my IA as he it examines my gun is carzier then a self defense shooting too me. What if your mag discount fails and you get shot? Thst the issues with what if What My county has no policy in place to cover this topic. If your sheriff hand examines each gun then youll habe to explain. On the p365 its a bolt what ifnit fell off and you never knew? I think for safy it safer for the user if its removed. Thats a personal to each person.

 

[1911-CV]

One local IA has stated that a modified gun is not the one you are permitted to carry (on permits they issue). If you are carrying a non-permitted gun, why get a CCW at all?

 

[drinktothat421]

One local IA has stated that a modified gun is not the one you are permitted to carry (on permits they issue). If you are carrying a non-permitted gun, why get a CCW at all?

My count has no restrictions. Do what you must. Like i said if the disconnect lands me in jail ill tale those odd. Just like all the restrictions our ccw have now as anny part of a day you could be in vaild due to sensitive places

 

[Dvrjon]

Odd it says "Possessing" and not "Possessing while CCW". I'd ask the IA to clean up the language. Details matter.

Why? The IA isn’t inspecting every firearm the individual owns. The policy, although not shown, certainly has a header stating that these are CCW licensee rules, and not a blanket policy regarding every firearm owned.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

Hi all. I've heard mixed opinions from lawyers and professional firearm instructors on the legality of removing a magazine safety from a CCW pistol. Some say don't touch it, some say it makes no difference in court.

For my particular platform, the Springfield Hellcat, I've heard removing the magazine safety improves the trigger, which is why I'm considering the idea.

What are your thoughts, and what evidence or people do you base your opinions from?

@rjww1945 lots of good advice and one lame post above. I gotta ask since you posted “I’ve heard removing the Mag safety improves the trigger”. How so and is it worth it?

I have 3 on my CCW and all 3 are stock (no mods, no optics) as purchased. P365X, G43x, G19. I’m no John Wick, but all those have very acceptable triggers and iron sights for 99.99% of any defensive response I would need.

Would it not be easier to to swap that Hellcat for something that has a decent trigger and no mag disconnect?

 

[NorCalBusa]

Why? The IA isn’t inspecting every firearm the individual owns. The policy, although not shown, certainly has a header stating that these are CCW licensee rules, and not a blanket policy regarding every firearm owned.

The old, details are in the hidden header trick!

 

[Joker67]

FWIW, regarding adjusting the trigger pull:

After 4-5000 rounds, the trigger pull weight on my P-01 CCW pistol dropped significantly. The original trigger pull weights were:

Double Action: 9.5 lbs, Single Action: 3.5 lbs

Currently with a new 20 lb factory hammer spring and nearly 12,000 rounds through it the trigger pull weights are:

Double Action: 5.5 lbs
Single Action: 2.2 lbs

The more you shoot your guns, the smoother and lighter the trigger gets. Same with Glocks, you can put an OEM minus disconnector on... or just keep shooting it.

If they tested my carry gun, they would see the springs are all factory but the trigger pull weights are significantly lighter. Same results as lighter springs, just from wearing them in.

So what's the difference? Am I am in legal peril because I broke the gun in?

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

So what's the difference? Am I am in legal peril because I broke the gun in?

Like others have stated, in a good shoot you will be fine. In a civil case as well. I would not expect a lawyer could argue the decreasing of trigger pull over time.

There are two different things here. Does your IA allow changes (and what is ok and what is not), AND what "could" be used against you in a civil case.

I'm just super conservative when it comes to my CCW guns because I have not found a need to modify anything on my P365X or G43X. Triggers are fine, slides are fine, springs are fine, iron sights are fine, grips are fine. Could any of those be changed to improve? Sure, but I don't see the need for me personally in a defensive carry situation. YMMV

 

[NorCalBusa]

Like others have stated, in a good shoot you will be fine. In a civil case as well. I would not expect a lawyer could argue the decreasing of trigger pull over time.

There are two different things here. Does your IA allow changes (and what is ok and what is not), AND what "could" be used against you in a civil case.

I'm just super conservative when it comes to my CCW guns because I have not found a need to modify anything on my P365X or G43X. Triggers are fine, slides are fine, springs are fine, iron sights are fine, grips are fine. Could any of those be changed to improve? Sure, but I don't see the need for me personally in a defensive carry situation. YMMV

The difference is it should be your choice, not some yahoo who works for a Sheriff deciding for everyone. It is not their job, law enforcement is- they should stick to that.