Is it normal for everything to be out of stock??

[Deleted member 16735]

Hmmm maybe time to explore other powders. I just started, and landed on 147gr fmj over 3.2gr Titegroup and it shoots SO soft and flat it’s crazy, but still cycles and functions fine in my guns without messing with springs or anything. Maybe I need to try out some other recipes… Will WIN231 provide equivalent results (at the right load of course)

you may have missed this above, but w231 is great but not for 147s, its too fast so you will hit pressure before you hit power factor. I've loaded it will 147s but it has a ton of recoil. Other decent 147 powders are cfe pistol and n320

Hodgdon TiteGroup Smokeless Powder - 8 Lb. ** ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIRED** SEE DETAILS IN DESCRIPTION

Premium smokeless powder for precision handloading and reloading. Adult signature required for delivery.

miwallcorp.com

 

[weaverftw]

you may have missed this above, but w231 is great but not for 147s, its too fast so you will hit pressure before you hit power factor. I've loaded it will 147s but it has a ton of recoil. Other decent 147 powders are cfe pistol and n320

Hodgdon TiteGroup Smokeless Powder - 8 Lb. ** ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIRED** SEE DETAILS IN DESCRIPTION

Premium smokeless powder for precision handloading and reloading. Adult signature required for delivery.

miwallcorp.com

Thank you!!

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Thank you!!

if you are already paying hazmat, I've had good luck with the winchester SPP from them

 

[vplaza96]

you may have missed this above, but w231 is great but not for 147s, its too fast so you will hit pressure before you hit power factor. I've loaded it will 147s but it has a ton of recoil. Other decent 147 powders are cfe pistol and n320

Hodgdon TiteGroup Smokeless Powder - 8 Lb. ** ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIRED** SEE DETAILS IN DESCRIPTION

Premium smokeless powder for precision handloading and reloading. Adult signature required for delivery.

miwallcorp.com

Thanks for replying since i don't have experience loading 147gr with W231. It's great for 115gr though.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Thanks for replying since i don't have experience loading 147gr with W231. It's great for 115gr though.

yep I load 124s for PCC with it, good stuff just not for 147s.

 

[AR15barrels]

you may have missed this above, but w231 is great but not for 147s, its too fast so you will hit pressure before you hit power factor. I've loaded it will 147s but it has a ton of recoil. Other decent 147 powders are cfe pistol and n320

But Titegroup is faster than W231 and he likes his titegroup loads.
N320 is also faster than W231.
Esplain that one lucy...

 

[Deleted member 16735]

But Titegroup is faster than W231 and he likes his titegroup loads.
N320 is also faster than W231.
Esplain that one lucy...

Ok you are right according to the hodgdon chart, the speed must not be the factor that makes it hit pressure. But go look at the hodgdon load data and you will see a severe lack of load data for heavy bullets and w231. I think there is one but it barely hits power factor.

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/updatedburnrateschart-1.pdf

 

[AR15barrels]

Ok you are right according to the hodgdon chart, the speed must not be the factor that makes it hit pressure. But go look at the hodgdon load data and you will see a severe lack of load data for heavy bullets and w231. I think there is one but it barely hits power factor.

I see that the Hodgon data has all the powders up around Accurate #7 and that makes sense for a heavy-for-caliber bullet.
Hogdon only has a single load for titegroup, but that's what the OP likes...
Seeing as how he is only looking to get 850fps with a 147, almost any moderate rate pistol powder will likely do that even if it has to push slightly into +p pressures.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I see that the Hodgon data has all the powders up around Accurate #7 and that makes sense for a heavy-for-caliber bullet.
Hogdon only has a single load for titegroup, but that's what the OP likes...
Seeing as how he is only looking to get 850fps with a 147, almost any moderate rate pistol powder will likely do that even if it has to push slightly into +p pressures.

It works but it's not ideal if you are trying to make mouse fart competition loads at minimum power factor. I tried it just last month and the extra recoil is noticable. I just looked at hodgdon and the w231 maxes at 845 and the tite group at 893, so you can actually load under max for 125-130 power factor with the tite group vs in +p territory with the w231. The w231 is great for 124s though so I just save it for that.

 

[AR15barrels]

It works but it's not ideal if you are trying to make mouse fart competition loads at minimum power factor. I tried it just last month and the extra recoil is noticable. I just looked at hodgdon and the w231 maxes at 845 and the tite group at 893, so you can actually load under max for 125-130 power factor with the tite group vs in +p territory with the w231. The w231 is great for 124s though so I just save it for that.

Universal would be my pick because I have like 20lbs of it on hand.
It makes velocity really well without building pressure and the starting load is already over 850fps.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Universal would be my pick because I have like 20lbs of it on hand.
It makes velocity really well without building pressure and the starting load is already over 850fps.

I've heard that's good, I've never seen it in stock anywhere though unfortunately

 

[AR15barrels]

I've heard that's good, I've never seen it in stock anywhere though unfortunately

I bought 3 cases of it in 2008 when it was $106 for a case (two 4lb jugs is a case)
I still have five 4lb jugs left.
I bought Wolf small pistol primers on that same order for $90/5000.
I think I sold those during the pandemic for $50/1000 though.

 

[MunnyShot]

You have to buy during the luel. Right after a presidential election and a Republican POTUS is elected is usually a good time since a lot of firearms and ammo companies ramp up production pre election anticipating the Dems getting a win. Also buying SRP and using them as an alternative to SPP will save you from scrounging as round when times are thin. Buy when items are plentiful, buy even though powder and primers aren't always in stock at the same time.

 

[weaverftw]

Interesting, so I might actually be BETTER off with something other than Titegroup with the 147s. I only chose it because it was suggested by several people and I found pretty consistent positive feedback on the 147+3.2gr TG online. I’m open to others though, and it did seem to be inefficient with the case volume (although I don’t want to fill the case too much as the 147s are long and might compress less dense powders).

 

[AR15barrels]

Interesting, so I might actually be BETTER off with something other than Titegroup with the 147s. I only chose it because it was suggested by several people and I found pretty consistent positive feedback on the 147+3.2gr TG online. I’m open to others though, and it did seem to be inefficient with the case volume (although I don’t want to fill the case too much as the 147s are long and might compress less dense powders).

Yes.

Take note that your 3.2gr load is over Hodgdon's 3.1gr max load.

Hodgdon

Titegroup

1.100"

2.8

758

24,600 PSI

3.1

893

33,100PSI

That means you are using all the pressure you can get to get your needed velocity.

Here is some more data from Hodgdon.
This is for a 147 Hornady XTP, but using your bullet will likely be fine as these are the recommended STARTING loads:

Manufacturer	Powder	Grs.	Vel. (ft/s)	Pressure
Winchester	AutoComp	3.6	827	27,900 PSI
Winchester	WSF	3.4	827	28,200 PSI
Winchester	W244	3	827	26,200 PSI
Hodgdon	Longshot	3.8	836	27,900 PSI
IMR	IMR Target	3.2	840	28,100 PSI
Ramshot	True Blue	4.3	842	28,600 PSI
Accurate	No. 7	5.4	848	28,700 PSI
Winchester	W572	3.5	855	25,600 PSI
Ramshot	Silhouette	4.2	862	28,500 PSI
Hodgdon	CFE Pistol	3.7	862	28,900 PSI
Hodgdon	Universal	3.5	875	28,700 PSI

I sorted them by velocity and then ruled out the ones below 825fps as those were mostly the faster powders.
Any of these remaining powders would likely be good powders, but the closer you get to your target velocity at the lowest working pressure should be the softest shooting loads.
This puts the last 5 on the list as your top contenders to meet your power factor at the lowest possible pressure.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I bought 3 cases of it in 2008 when it was $106 for a case (two 4lb jugs is a case)
I still have five 4lb jugs left.

that's not fair!

 

[weaverftw]

Yes.

Take note that your 3.2gr load is over Hodgdon's 3.1gr max load.

Hodgdon

Titegroup

1.100"

2.8

758

24,600 PSI

3.1

893

33,100PSI

That means you are using all the pressure you can get to get your needed velocity.

Here is some more data from Hodgdon.
This is for a 147 Hornady XTP, but using your bullet will likely be fine as these are the recommended STARTING loads:

Manufacturer	Powder	Grs.	Vel. (ft/s)	Pressure
Winchester	AutoComp	3.6	827	27,900 PSI
Winchester	WSF	3.4	827	28,200 PSI
Winchester	W244	3	827	26,200 PSI
Hodgdon	Longshot	3.8	836	27,900 PSI
IMR	IMR Target	3.2	840	28,100 PSI
Ramshot	True Blue	4.3	842	28,600 PSI
Accurate	No. 7	5.4	848	28,700 PSI
Winchester	W572	3.5	855	25,600 PSI
Ramshot	Silhouette	4.2	862	28,500 PSI
Hodgdon	CFE Pistol	3.7	862	28,900 PSI
Hodgdon	Universal	3.5	875	28,700 PSI

I sorted them by velocity and then ruled out the ones below 825fps as those were mostly the faster powders.
Any of these remaining powders would likely be good powders, but the closer you get to your target velocity at the lowest working pressure should be the softest shooting loads.
This puts the last 5 on the list as your top contenders to meet your power factor at the lowest possible pressure.

Thank you, this is very helpful. The load I am shooting now feels like .22lr so I can’t imagine what one of these will feel like if they’re softer…

 

[AR15barrels]

that's not fair!

It was a good deal at the time.
If you were reloading or customizing guns in 2008, you would know how bad it was between 2008 and 2010...

If I wanted to rub it in, I would post the whole list of that 2008 order:

Description	Price Each
ALLIANT RELODER 25 - 1 LB.	16.80
ALLIANT UNIQUE - 8 LB.	93.50
HODGDON H335 - 8 LBS.	117.50
HODGDON UNIVERSAL CLAYS - 8 LBS.	106.00
HODGDON VARGET - 1LB.	18.25
IMR 4895 - 8 LBS.	121.00
Ramshot TAC - 8 LB.	104.50
WINCHESTER 231 - 8 LB.	108.00
WINCHESTER 748 - 8 LB.	122.00
CCI #34 7.62 mm MILITARY PRIMERS - per case of 5000	125.00
WIN LARGE PISTOL PRIMERS - per case of 5000	107.50
WOLF SMALL PISTOL PRIMERS - per case of 5000	90.00
CCI #500 SMALL PISTOL PRIMERS - per case of 5000	112.50

Titegroup was cheap in 2015 so I bought some of that too:

Description	Price Each
HODGDON VARGET - 8 LBS. Limit 4	165.00
HODGDON TITEGROUP - 8 LBS.	127.75

 

[Joker67]

I’ve been running 3.1 guns of titegroup with 147 gn . Making PF but chasing something else.

I had won a bag of free 147’s that were insanely soft shooting. Not feeling much difference between 147’s and the 124’s when I load them with TG at 3.1.

I’m not sure how long this shortage will last. TG is not my favorite powder but it’s versatile and usually cheaper. Buying it has kept my powder stock numbers flat.

It was $28 lb when I first started buying. Win 231 was $30 and N320 $35. I’ve seen Everything listed above $50 recently… if you can find it. The free hazmat , free shipping holiday sales are when to score…and buy 4-8 lbs. at a time if what you want is in stock. The 1lb prices now are high.

 

[weaverftw]

I’ve been running 3.1 guns of titegroup with 147 gn . Making PF but chasing something else.

I had won a bag of free 147’s that were insanely soft shooting. Not feeling much difference between 147’s and the 124’s when I load them with TG at 3.1.

I’m not sure how long this shortage will last. TG is not my favorite powder but it’s versatile and usually cheaper. Buying it has kept my powder stock numbers flat.

It was $28 lb when I first started buying. Win 231 was $30 and N320 $35. I’ve seen Everything listed above $50 recently… if you can find it. The free hazmat , free shipping holiday sales are when to score…and buy 4-8 lbs. at a time if what you want is in stock. The 1lb prices now are high.

When do the sales usually happen? Memorial/labor day likely, July 4, etc or just Xmas time?