Has anyone dared to install the Freedom Fighter into a Noveske N4 4th gen or LMT MARS-L lower?

[morningbird]

I've seen AR Maglock filed to smoothly go around the ambi controls at the LMT MARS-L but I haven't seen the same for the Noveske N4 4th Gen. But when it comes to the freedom fighter things get tricky. Those are fancy and expensive ambi lowers and I'm worried the ambi bolt catch is in the way where you'd need drilling for the freedom fighter kit. Has someone dared?

• LMT MARS-L: https://lmtdefense.com/product/mars-l-stripped/
• N4 4th Gen: https://noveske.com/products/gen-4-lower-receiver
• Hogue Freedom Fighter drilling right into the danger zone:

Any thoughts?

 

[AR15barrels]

The freedom fighter won't work in many AMBI lowers where there is a lever up above the mag release button that impedes the location where the freedom fighter hole gets drilled.
An alternative is sometimes the JlBillet maglock which works similarly to the freedom fighter, except it mounts on the other side of the receiver and interacts with the magazine catch bar.
For that to work, you need to be able to use a milspec mag catch which some ambi lowers (such as the Radian) do not have.
The Radian has a hole in almost the same location as the JlBillet needs and I have re-tasked that hole and drilled a hole in the non-milspec Radian mag catch to make it work.

 

[W.H.O.]

Closest I've done is a receiver with just the ambi bolt release, no catch.

@AR15barrels Is that what you're referring to?

 

[morningbird]

The JL Billet Maglock looks like it would work. I'm pretty close to trying that out. Thank you @AR15barrels for making me aware of its existence.

Unforuntately the jig is sold out at JL Billet and I don't think I will risk it without the Jig. Anyone has spares?

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

I would not do permanent mods on expensive/ top tier receivers for something you'd hope is only temporary.

 

[morningbird]

Excuse my pessimism, but there is reason for hope? How would that bright future play out?

 

[AR15barrels]

Closest I've done is a receiver with just the ambi bolt release, no catch.

@AR15barrels Is that what you're referring to?

I am not sure what you are referring to.
Post pictures with red/blue squiggles on the receiver showing what you are speaking of.

 

[miles888]

I have the JL Billet on a Griffen armament mk2 ambi lower. Works fine but doesn’t drop the mag when the bolt is locked back. Tried filing the pin to no avail.

 

[addiction]

I did a Hogue Freedom Fighter in MARS-L. It does not hit/affect the ambi bolt catch

 

[AR15barrels]

I have the JL Billet on a Griffen armament mk2 ambi lower.
Works fine but doesn’t drop the mag when the bolt is locked back.
Tried filing the pin to no avail.

If you can lock back the bolt and change magazines, the gun does not meet the ca state legal definition of "disassemled" because you could also insert a magazine and release the bolt carrier and fire the rifle without "reassembling" the upper to the lower.
If the ability to lock the bolt back and change magazines is important, you might as well simply ignore the law and not even attempt to be compliant because any gun that can do that will fail to be legally considered "disassembled" when tested by the BOF technical folks.

 

[AR15barrels]

The JL Billet Maglock looks like it would work. I'm pretty close to trying that out. Thank you @AR15barrels for making me aware of its existence.

Unforuntately the jig is sold out at JL Billet and I don't think I will risk it without the Jig. Anyone has spares?

I have the JLbillet drill jig but I also install JLbillet maglocks without the drill jig simply by measuring where the pin needs to be drilled.
I also have drilled non-milspec magazine catch bars for use with the JLbillet maglock.

 

[miles888]

If you can lock back the bolt and change magazines, the gun does not meet the ca state legal definition of "disassemled" because you could also insert a magazine and release the bolt carrier and fire the rifle without "reassembling" the upper to the lower.
If the ability to lock the bolt back and change magazines is important, you might as well simply ignore the law and not even attempt to be compliant because any gun that can do that will fail to be legally considered "disassembled" when tested by the BOF technical folks.

Cal. Code Regs. Tit. 11, § 5471 - Registration of Assault Weapons Pursuant to Penal Code Section 30900(b)(1); Explanation of Terms Related to Assault Weapon Designation

www.law.cornell.edu

I’ve never heard of that before.

Upper and lower separating is enough to stand up to the law. Doesn’t say anything about the BCG.

I recently had two rifles in LAPD possession. They did a very thorough inspection before releasing them to me via law enforcement release and the configuration was deemed legal. AR maglock gen 4 and king pin.

You can drop the bolt and have the upper and lower reassemble, and while it’s only a couple millimeters it’s still in fact disassembled.

 

[AR15barrels]

Cal. Code Regs. Tit. 11, § 5471 - Registration of Assault Weapons Pursuant to Penal Code Section 30900(b)(1); Explanation of Terms Related to Assault Weapon Designation

www.law.cornell.edu

I’ve never heard of that before.

Upper and lower separating is enough to stand up to the law. Doesn’t say anything about the BCG.

I recently had two rifles in LAPD possession. They did a very thorough inspection before releasing them to me via law enforcement release and the configuration was deemed legal. AR maglock gen 4 and king pin.

You can drop the bolt and have the upper and lower reassemble, and while it’s only a couple millimeters it’s still in fact disassembled.

CA spells it out pretty clearly here:

“Disassembly of the firearm action” means the fire control assembly is detached from the action in such a way that the action has been interrupted and will not function. For example, disassembling the action on a two part receiver, like that on an AR-15 style firearm, would require the rear take down pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upwards and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum, before the magazine may be removed.

I'm pretty sure that sending a bullet down the barrel via the ignition of the powder charge after the primer is struck by the firing pin would be the clear definition of "function" for a firearm.

The problem with any AR-based disassembly method that allows the AR's bolt carrier to be locked back while the action is "disassembled" is that you could also release the bolt carrier without "reassembly of the action" and the gun could fire, thus failing the legal test for "disassembly of the action" if the gun actually fires.

You can argue all you want, but the legal test is quite simple:
If the gun can fire while disassembled, that's function and therefore the gun is not legally disassembled..
If the gun can not fire while disassembled, that's legally disassembled.

 

[miles888]

CA spells it out pretty clearly here:


I'm pretty sure that sending a bullet down the barrel via the ignition of the powder charge after the primer is struck by the firing pin would be the clear definition of "function" for a firearm.

The problem with any AR-based disassembly method that allows the AR's bolt carrier to be locked back while the action is "disassembled" is that you could also release the bolt carrier without "reassembly of the action" and the gun could fire, thus failing the legal test for "disassembly of the action" if the gun actually fires.

You can argue all you want, but the legal test is quite simple:
If the gun can fire while disassembled, that's function and therefore the gun is not legally disassembled..
If the gun can not fire while disassembled, that's legally disassembled.

Thats the same law I linked…

The upper and lower reassemble if you drop the bolt. It literally can’t function otherwise.

Also you allegedly shipped a barrel to my door…twice. Violating AB-1263 and SB-704.

Respectfully, I don’t trust your legal opinion.

 

[W.H.O.]

CA spells it out pretty clearly here:


I'm pretty sure that sending a bullet down the barrel via the ignition of the powder charge after the primer is struck by the firing pin would be the clear definition of "function" for a firearm.

The problem with any AR-based disassembly method that allows the AR's bolt carrier to be locked back while the action is "disassembled" is that you could also release the bolt carrier without "reassembly of the action" and the gun could fire, thus failing the legal test for "disassembly of the action" if the gun actually fires.

You can argue all you want, but the legal test is quite simple:
If the gun can fire while disassembled, that's function and therefore the gun is not legally disassembled..
If the gun can not fire while disassembled, that's legally disassembled.

Technically speaking, you can send a bullet down the barrel without a complete firearm. I suppose we should have to just separate the carrier from the receiver too right? But wait, you don't even need a bolt or carrier to "technically" have that bullet discharged from the barrel. In fact, you don't even need the barrel. Hardware stores should require an FFL.

Rediculous thought process though, right?

*To be clear, I'm not arguing your claim. I just wanted to frame how rediculous all of these laws are. And yes, I know we all are already aware.*

 

[AR15barrels]

The upper and lower reassemble if you drop the bolt. It literally can’t function otherwise.

I made a video that shows otherwise but I forget where it's stored so I guess you are right because I don't feel like digging up the video that proves you are wrong.
But the video exists and has been previously posted.

The gun can fire while the upper and lower are separated 2mm via any of the takedown pin devices that slide partially to the side and let the upper separate only a couple mm.
It takes over 5/16" of separation between upper and lower at the takedown pin before the gun won't fire which makes it not possible to be legally disassembled via any of the partially sliding takedown pin devices because the takedown pin is less than 5/16" diameter.

 

[miles888]

I made a video that shows otherwise but I forget where it's stored so I guess you are right because I don't feel like digging up the video that proves you are wrong.
But the video exists and has been previously posted.

The gun can fire while the upper and lower are separated 2mm via any of the takedown pin devices that slide partially to the side and let the upper separate only a couple mm.
It takes over 5/16" of separation between upper and lower at the takedown pin before the gun won't fire which makes it not possible to be legally disassembled via any of the partially sliding takedown pin devices because the takedown pin is less than 5/16" diameter.

Cool story bro

 

[OfficialAnon23]

I have the JL Billet on a Griffen armament mk2 ambi lower. Works fine but doesn’t drop the mag when the bolt is locked back. Tried filing the pin to no avail.

Were you able to determine the hogue freedom kit wouldn’t work on the mk2 lower? I’ve seen a Reddit post with someone that was able to successfully install one on a m4e1 pro lower but they’re unobtainable at the moment so was interested in the mk2. Local gun shop said they could do it by want to confirm with the people.

 

[CadeH]

Mag releasing with bcg locked back is irrelevant, the problem would be if the gun can fire with the actions separated via kingpin or hellfighter pin or whatever you use.

Push your pin so they're separated and pull the trigger with a round chambered, if it doesn't fire you're compliant if it does then fix it.

 

[miles888]

Were you able to determine the hogue freedom kit wouldn’t work on the mk2 lower? I’ve seen a Reddit post with someone that was able to successfully install one on a m4e1 pro lower but they’re unobtainable at the moment so was interested in the mk2. Local gun shop said they could do it by want to confirm with the people.

Nah doesn’t fit.

I ended up getting the JL billet kit to work great though.

The way I did it was removing the mag catch, locking the bolt back, and filing the pin through the match catch opening. I do the same with hogue kits on mil spec lowers.

But yeah JL Billet is the way to go for mk2