CCW Frustration with expensive and nearly useless CCW permit

[Striker62]

It is better to have a firearm and not need it, then to need a firearm and not have it. We can hope SCOTUS or something will change that again allows us to carry in all of those "sensitive" locations.

 

[9mmContagion]

At what point do people realize that your life is more important than anyone else’s? This subject has been beat to death since the bill was introduced. We all know they don’t want you legally carrying. Do you think the thugs are sitting around stressing about where they can’t carry now?! NOPE! Carry on! They’re winning by making you even second guess. Keep your permits, get your permits, and carry everywhere you go. Nobody is going to protect you or your family but yourself. It shouldn’t be a question of what if I get caught printing at a park! The question is, what if a thug gets the drop on me at the park and I was too scared of a misdemeanor? My life and family are more important than anything else, and yours should be too

/rant

 

[21SF 2.0]

At what point do people realize that your life is more important than anyone else’s? This subject has been beat to death since the bill was introduced. We all know they don’t want you legally carrying. Do you think the thugs are sitting around stressing about where they can’t carry now?! NOPE! Carry on! They’re winning by making you even second guess. Keep your permits, get your permits, and carry everywhere you go. Nobody is going to protect you or your family but yourself. It shouldn’t be a question of what if I get caught printing at a park! The question is, what if a thug gets the drop on me at the park and I was too scared of a misdemeanor? My life and family are more important than anything else, and yours should be too

/rant

Exactly, like the other poster said living in fear 24/7 lol I’m a big dude and can handle my own. My life…whatever. My daughters? NOPE

 

[DuckDawg22]

Yes, that’s true. Luckily, that portion isn’t being enforced currently. Nowhere besides gun stores would post such a sign.

The auto shop I go to has a "concealed carry allowed" sign, which is one of many reasons I pay more for his services over local competitors. I was at Bass Pro in Manteca yesterday and they also have a sign allowing concealed carry. Non CCW holders have to check their guns in at the desk but I read the sign as "if it's concealed, keep it that way"

 

[treelogger]

You would be surprised how many democrats own guns

And you'd be surprised how large a fraction of all gun owners in California are democrats. My personal estimate is somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of all of them.

And you'd be even more surprised how large a fraction of them are basically OK with many of the gun control laws in the state. From my observation: While the handgun roster has very few friends, quite a few are OK with the assault weapons ban, since they are of the opinion that ARs and AKs should not be in the hand of individuals (I happen to disagree and own quite a few of them). And when it comes to widespread CCW issuance or even constitutional carry, you get even more gun owners to agree. A common viewpoint is that the right place for a gun is either in a good gun safe, or in a locked bag in the car on the way to the range, or on the range, and nowhere else. In a nutshell, guns are for sport shooting, not for self-defense (that is, killing people). And to be clear: that is a common viewpoint among gun owners and shooters.

 

[NorCalBusa]

The auto shop I go to has a "concealed carry allowed" sign, which is one of many reasons I pay more for his services over local competitors. I was at Bass Pro in Manteca yesterday and they also have a sign allowing concealed carry. Non CCW holders have to check their guns in at the desk but I read the sign as "if it's concealed, keep it that way"

Wonder if the San Jose store does the same?

 

[21SF 2.0]

And you'd be surprised how large a fraction of all gun owners in California are democrats. My personal estimate is somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of all of them.

And you'd be even more surprised how large a fraction of them are basically OK with many of the gun control laws in the state. From my observation: While the handgun roster has very few friends, quite a few are OK with the assault weapons ban, since they are of the opinion that ARs and AKs should not be in the hand of individuals (I happen to disagree and own quite a few of them). And when it comes to widespread CCW issuance or even constitutional carry, you get even more gun owners to agree. A common viewpoint is that the right place for a gun is either in a good gun safe, or in a locked bag in the car on the way to the range, or on the range, and nowhere else. In a nutshell, guns are for sport shooting, not for self-defense (that is, killing people). And to be clear: that is a common viewpoint among gun owners and shooters.

They forget how we got here and why we have the freedoms that we do.

 

[Gun Kraft]

"Better judged by 12 than carried by 6" is terrible advice. Hope is not a strategy, and thinking "I hope this is legal" can lead to terrible consequences. If you are found guilty of murder and spend decades in prison, plus lose in civil court everything you own or ever will earn to the survivor or their heirs, your life is effectively over at that point regardless of whether you're still breathing or not. If you make that decision to pull the trigger you better be sure that is the correct thing to do to the best of your ability. Again, hope is not a strategy.

 

[9mmContagion]

"Better judged by 12 than carried by 6" is terrible advice. Hope is not a strategy, and thinking "I hope this is legal" can lead to terrible consequences. If you are found guilty of murder and spend decades in prison, plus lose in civil court everything you own or ever will earn to the survivor or their heirs, your life is effectively over at that point regardless of whether you're still breathing or not. If you make that decision to pull the trigger you better be sure that is the correct thing to do to the best of your ability. Again, hope is not a strategy.

So your advice is to be carried by 6? No thanks! I’ll take my chances.. Again, my life is more important than anyone else’s. I have a family to protect. I’ll take my chances. Thugs couldn’t care less about these BS laws. You don’t think they’ll take advantage of the fact that 80% of citizens bow down and listen to their over lords just to be taken advantage of by the filth of the world? I’d be willing to bet you have better chances of running into problems with thugs than you would problems by carrying concealed in a park or store that doesn’t have a BS sign. But you do you boo!

 

[westsidearms]

"Better judged by 12 than carried by 6" is terrible advice. Hope is not a strategy, and thinking "I hope this is legal" can lead to terrible consequences. If you are found guilty of murder and spend decades in prison, plus lose in civil court everything you own or ever will earn to the survivor or their heirs, your life is effectively over at that point regardless of whether you're still breathing or not. If you make that decision to pull the trigger you better be sure that is the correct thing to do to the best of your ability. Again, hope is not a strategy.

I think you are overthinking this. The saying is not meant to be interpreted as "I will shoot first and ask questions later, who cares if I get prosecuted for a bad shoot." It is, "I don't care if it is illegal for me to carry. If my life or my loved ones' lives are in imminent danger, let them prosecute me for unlawful carry if they want, I am not going to be subject to the whims of criminals." The idea is to be tried for illegal carry, not tried for murder. Obviously if you are illegally carrying, it is better to avoid trouble all together. However, if evil comes for you, you will not let a misdemeanor stop you from surviving.

 

[Michael the Beloved]

Get the permit, have carry insurance,…in case you must use the firearm in a self defense incident. Make sure you have a criminal defense lawyer’s number (who is gun friendly), easily available on your cell. Carry insurance will not cover the cost of paying for a criminal defense lawyer to represent you for misdemeanor of carrying in a sensitive place, yet there are some excellent Public Defenders in most counties…and are free depending on your income level, and are knowledgeable at diversionary dispositions, which might mean don’t get re-arrested for a year… and the case gets dismissed.

 

[Dvrjon]

"Better judged by 12 than carried by 6" is terrible advice. Hope is not a strategy, and thinking "I hope this is legal" can lead to terrible consequences. If you are found guilty of murder and spend decades in prison, plus lose in civil court everything you own or ever will earn to the survivor or their heirs, your life is effectively over at that point regardless of whether you're still breathing or not. If you make that decision to pull the trigger you better be sure that is the correct thing to do to the best of your ability. Again, hope is not a strategy.

I’ve never considered this a strategy or a “hope”. It is, at its base, a risk assessment.
“Judged by 12” provides alternatives. In some cases, you may not be prosecuted for the shooting; you may be found innocent; you may get sued, but if your assets are in a properly-prepared trust, they may not be reachable; although you may go to prison or die, your family members may still be alive.
“Carried by six” limits your alternatives to cremation or a box. It indicates no hope; no alternative; no opportunity to move forward.
It’s not a strategy; it’s a cost/benefit analysis of risk.
Your life; your dice. Roll ‘em.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Get the permit, have carry insurance,…in case you must use the firearm in a self defense incident. Make sure you have a criminal defense lawyer’s number (who is gun friendly), easily available on your cell. Carry insurance will not cover the cost of paying for a criminal defense lawyer to represent you for misdemeanor of carrying in a sensitive place, yet there are some excellent Public Defenders in most counties…and are free depending on your income level, and are knowledgeable at diversionary dispositions, which might mean don’t get re-arrested for a year… and the case gets dismissed.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "carry insurance". The various programs we see all the time are "prepaid legal expense"- a critical distinction.

 

[Michael the Beloved]

I don't believe there is such a thing as "carry insurance". The various programs we see all the time are "prepaid legal expense"- a critical distinction.

Then I stand corrected and thank you for noting the clarification. Although I don’t fully understand the distinction, as far as the common words used. In principal, yes, some of these insurance companies can cover various legal expenses (paying for a criminal defense and possibly a civil lawyer, assisting with paying for bail, hiring private investigators, and other forensic experts to assist with the investigation of the defense). Even the prepaid legal expense part is subject to the insurer first determining, if they will pay, if they deem your actions were lawful, before they will consider assisting. I figure they will only cover if I had to remove the firearm, pointed it and/or shot at someone… and a claim of self-defense can be justified with those facts.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Then I stand corrected and thank you for noting the clarification. Although I don’t fully understand the distinction, as far as the common words used. In principal, yes, some of these insurance companies can cover various legal expenses (paying for a criminal defense and possibly a civil lawyer, assisting with paying for bail, hiring private investigators, and other forensic experts to assist with the investigation of the defense). Even the prepaid legal expense part is subject to the insurer first determining, if they will pay, if they deem your actions were lawful, before they will consider assisting. I figure they will only cover if I had to remove the firearm, pointed it and/or shot at someone… and a claim of self-defense can be justified with those facts.

Call your homeowner insurance company and ask them to explain the difference, then detail for you exactly what/when/how/how much they cover a firearms incident. Take good notes, then call another homeowner insurance company and ask for a quote and their policy regarding firearms incidents. Maybe call yet another. Free legal advice from the horse's mouths.

 

[9mmContagion]

Call your homeowner insurance company and ask them to explain the difference, then detail for you exactly what/when/how/how much they cover a firearms incident. Take good notes, then call another homeowner insurance company and ask for a quote and their policy regarding firearms incidents. Maybe call yet another. Free legal advice from the horse's mouths.

HOI isn’t doing anything for a shoot. Can almost guarantee that. Get actual self defense insurance. USCCA, Second Call Defense, etc. I prefer that latter.

 

[p--and--p]

It will all just keep going to hell here, I don't even get why one would go for a CCW since you can't carry anywhere and soon to be even more places once the law gets added back. You just PRAY you don't get into a situation in your lifetime- most of the time you don't but that one time... Anyways, I see so many posts here anti trump and wonder how you could love guns and vote D in california. They will not stop, soon to ban glocks or glock type guns- the list just keeps going never ending and I'm convinced the SCourt will not do anything about it. Nothing you can do but move out, sadly most of us have good jobs or family and it just doesn't make sense to move

 

[treelogger]

Call your homeowner insurance company and ask them to explain the difference, then detail for you exactly what/when/how/how much they cover a firearms incident.

First, the agent you'll get to talk to will probably tell you (correctly) that words such as "firearm" or "gun" don't even appear in the liability policy. So your question doesn't even have an answer. Just like asking them whether they would cover a Cuisinart incident: the word Cuisinart is also not mentioned in the policy, nor is Kitchenaid. The policy document probably talks about much broader concepts.

Second, the agent probably won't answer the question at all. They will point out that they are not lawyers, in particular not your lawyer. They may send you a copy of the policy to read yourself, or to give to your lawyer.

The likely answer is that such policies typically don't cover intentional acts, such as shooting someone. And even when used in self defense, shooting someone is nearly always done intentionally.

 

[treelogger]

Anyways, I see so many posts here anti trump and wonder how you could love guns and vote D in california.

There are many people in this state who do not wonder about this, but instead do it: they are both gun owners and democratic voters, or anti-Trump. That's the reality we live in.

 

[p--and--p]

There are many people in this state who do not wonder about this, but instead do it: they are both gun owners and democratic voters, or anti-Trump. That's the reality we live in.

And thats fine, I have no problem with how anyone votes, its up to us to convince each other- however- in the case of 2A, it is self explanatory about who you have to vote for but if other issues are more important to you then it is what it is and we are just screwed lol