CCW Frustration with expensive and nearly useless CCW permit

[Michael the Beloved]

It will all just keep going to hell here, I don't even get why one would go for a CCW since you can't carry anywhere and soon to be even more places once the law gets added back. You just PRAY you don't get into a situation in your lifetime- most of the time you don't but that one time... Anyways, I see so many posts here anti trump and wonder how you could love guns and vote D in california. They will not stop, soon to ban glocks or glock type guns- the list just keeps going never ending and I'm convinced the SCourt will not do anything about it. Nothing you can do but move out, sadly most of us have good jobs or family and it just doesn't make

It will all just keep going to hell here, I don't even get why one would go for a CCW since you can't carry anywhere and soon to be even more places once the law gets added back. You just PRAY you don't get into a situation in your lifetime- most of the time you don't but that one time... Anyways, I see so many posts here anti trump and wonder how you could love guns and vote D in california. They will not stop, soon to ban glocks or glock type guns- the list just keeps going never ending and I'm convinced the SCourt will not do anything about it. Nothing you can do but move out, sadly most of us have good jobs or family and it just doesn't make sense to move

I can understand your sentiment, and I do not agree with it. Although for now, the state legislative process here in California seems destined to keep sticking it to us, and having to pay an extra 11% today when purchasing a handgun rubbed me the wrong way, yet I have faith that our allies contesting various laws on the federal and state levels in the courts, will make some headway sooner than later. Many of us felt we would not get any relief from the Supreme Court when it came to concealed carry, yet the Bruen decision came along to help to pave the way for many of us, in gun hostile counties, to get a permit. Yes, this permit was pricey, for some of us took two years, and it is limited…yet this is a civil right we need to keep practicing, exercising and advocating for, by donating to the right organizations who can lobby and also contest these laws in the courts. One day soon the US Supreme Court is destined to provide greater clarity and relief in the area of assault weapons and magazine bans. In the next few years also to establish what is a sensitive place for where you can carry. Yes residents of other states, here in the west, have it way easier than us, yet even when all seems bleak, it’s the camaraderie available in forums like this, which shows there are other like-minded individuals that we can interact with, and use a springboard to convince more people about why exercising the civil right is good for all of society.

 

[DJD100]

There appears to be a 5th Circuit Federal case against so called "gun free" zones in Texas now, that could have implications here if it wins there, and especially if SCOTUS picks it up?

https://www.usacarry.com/texas-lawsuit-could-blow-hole-in-gun-free-zone-laws-across-the-country/

 

[Dvrjon]

There appears to be a 5th Circuit Federal case against so called "gun free" zones in Texas now, that could have implications here if it wins there, and especially if SCOTUS picks it up?

https://www.usacarry.com/texas-lawsuit-could-blow-hole-in-gun-free-zone-laws-across-the-country/

That’s a heck of a stretch. The lawsuit is specifically focused on bars (51% of business in alcohol), sporting events and race tracks. Also, the State of Texas agrees that these provisions of Texas law are unconstitutional, but the Court is requiring an Amicus counsel defend the lawsuit on behalf of the State. If the State of Texas loses, then there won’t be an appeal.

From the Court record:

[…]

[…]

///////////

Upon receipt of the above, the judge issued the Following Order:
////////////

 

[NorCalBusa]

Does that mean bars will have to post their percentage of alcohol sales relative to all sales and maintain the figure in perpetuity? GLWT...

 

[Dvrjon]

Does that mean bars will have to post their percentage of alcohol sales relative to all sales and maintain the figure in perpetuity? GLWT...

It means that’s a Texas problem under existing law.

 

[win231]

Hmm, the jail time just isn’t worth the risk. A misdemeanor on its own isn’t a huge deal—from what I remember, I got one just for being on an old BLM road that wasn’t technically a road anymore, so they said I was off-roading. But jail time? That’s a different story.

The problem is, you never really know how an officer will react if they see you printing. Will it be a friendly warning? An arrest? And what if you draw on someone but misjudge the situation? Are they going to throw the book at you?

There’s a lot of risk to consider here.

I'd be concerned about future firearm/ammo purchases. Some judges & some cops don't like gun owners.

 

[Dvrjon]

The real question is about risk. What's the penalty if youre caught carrying and are you more worried about that punishment or someone coming in and trying to take your life.

Personally I've had more police encounters than threats to my life.

I would like to know the penalty though.

The penalty is for carry concealed and carriying loaded. Each is a misdemeanor and subject to plea bargaining. Misdemeanors ar e usually served in county jail, but the jails are full of felons bumped down to redce prison populations.

Hmm, the jail time just isn’t worth the risk. A misdemeanor on its own isn’t a huge deal—from what I remember, I got one just for being on an old BLM road that wasn’t technically a road anymore, so they said I was off-roading. But jail time? That’s a different story.

The problem is, you never really know how an officer will react if they see you printing. Will it be a friendly warning? An arrest? And what if you draw on someone but misjudge the situation? Are they going to throw the book at you?

There’s a lot of risk to consider here.

Case law establishes that printing is "substanitally concealed". How LEOs respond is a wild card, but I'd really like to believe that they aren't goint to make a large issue of it unless you shoot someone.

 

[Malibu]

I'd be concerned about future firearm/ammo purchases. Some judges & some cops don't like gun owners.

Add to that the very distinct possibility that blue states expand the categories of those who can no longer possess firearms to cover misdemeanants of all sorts, despite the fact that those drafting such laws know full well that they are likely unconstitutional. The strategy is that to repeal/reverse/stop takes lots of time, and lots of money, and in the meantime more folks can be disarmed and more firearms destroyed. Until lower courts and state legislatures are purged of (not allowed to call them that on this forum), the full measure of defiance to Bruen and conservatives in general moves full steam ahead.

 

[Exley]

The bars/restaurants one is the worst. Still worth it though for grocery store & gas station trips, etc.

 

[tonyskala]

I have to be honest.... I am a fart sniffing Democrat. Blue to my bone. But it also means I am sensible. I honestly cant make heads from tails on some of these CCW laws. Alameda County is over 1100 dollars to get a CCW and Mendocino County is 302 dollars. The requirements are different for each sheriff and county but if you get the permit in one county is is good in the entire state except for those prohibited places. And there are alot of them.There needs to be a set cost and procedure. It is all patchwork.Then I was reading through the requirements for maintaining it... this is what I do not like

The license will be subject to any and all reasonable restrictions or conditions the Sheriff has deemed warranted, including restrictions as to the time, place, manner and circumstances under which the person may carry the concealed firearm.

and

The license or licensed weapon shall be subjected to inspection at any time by the Sheriff or any law enforcement officer.

When I look at the set list of prohibition coupled with the cost and what appears to be a blanket giving up 4th amendment rights.... I dont think it is worth it. The only really thing I would like to do is just keep it in my truck. God knows the difficulty of transporting a weapon around in the state or on my motorcycle. So I think I am just gonna pass on the ccw which is most likely what California wants me to do.. The only real place I want it is in my car and or truck.

I suppose I dont mind some of the restrictions but they will literally turn me into a criminal for moving and not notifying them, or not presenting the pistol for inspection when they feel like looking at it. I really despise Trump and most of his policies but this is one thing I can get behind his administration on. I just hope the ammo check makes its way up to Supreme Court becuase it is costing me alot of money to target shoot now. And I have to be honest. It is nice to have 30 in a clip.. but I really dont need it. I can usually hit what I need to with 3. So I don't mind the capacity restriction.... BUT I think law enforcement should also be restricted to the same conditions. I just want parity with them. Anyway nothing a no-body like me can do about it but donate some mulla to the cause which I have done and continue to do.

And trust me fellas and ladies if any..... You dont want to conceal carry and get caught.... It is expensive and will blemish your reccord tot he point where you may loose your second ammendment rights all together. Lady in Oakland was being burglarized and she woke up and scared them off by firing into the air. It was east oaklan and she fired into the air over the open space... Guess who got arrested? the lady who was being burglarized..........

 

[Hit Factor]

I have to be honest.... I am a fart sniffing Democrat. Blue to my bone. But it also means I am sensible . . .

Then I was reading through the requirements for maintaining it... this is what I do not like

The license will be subject to any and all reasonable restrictions or conditions the Sheriff has deemed warranted, including restrictions as to the time, place, manner and circumstances under which the person may carry the concealed firearm.

and

The license or licensed weapon shall be subjected to inspection at any time by the Sheriff or any law enforcement officer.

When I look at the set list of prohibition coupled with the cost and what appears to be a blanket giving up 4th amendment rights.... I dont think it is worth it.

In regard to the first point, the operative word in “concealed carry” is “concealed.” And you said that being a Democrat makes you sensible (insert huge eye roll), so you might want to consider the old adage “it’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.” If you believe that the world is a dangerous enough place to get a CCW permit in the first place, then the sensible choice is obvious.

Regarding the second point, in almost 15 years of daily CCW carry I have never had my weapon inspected by anyone other than a CCW trainer during a few of my biannual renewals. In fact, the only time I was ever pulled over during that time was for speeding, and when I handed my CCW permit to the officer along with my driver’s license, he asked if I had a gun with me. I said yes. He asked where it was. I told him it was in my waistband at about 3 o’clock. He said, “Okay, you don’t show me yours, and I won’t show you mine.” And that was it. He let me off with a warning.

When you have a CCW permit you are considered to be one of the good guys. You have gone through the ultimate background check already, so they know they don’t need to worry about you. The idea that you will be subjected to random weapon checks is laughable. Believe it or not, cops have much more important things to do with their time.

 

[Whiskey Diet]

Just carry anyway.

This.. I heard some instructors and policemen from Texas recently talking about how we allneed to learn how to “conceal better” especially in those places we know we can’t and carry and is going to pop off.

That’s when a level headed 2A enthusiast is needed most.

Carry anyways

 

[Baldy333]

I honestly cant make heads from tails on some of these CCW laws. Alameda County is over 1100 dollars to get a CCW and Mendocino County is 302 dollars. .... I dont think it is worth it. The only really thing I would like to do is just keep it in my truck. God knows the difficulty of transporting a weapon around in the state or on my motorcycle. So I think I am just gonna pass on the ccw which is most likely what California wants me to do.. The only real place I want it is in my car and or truck.

Well Tony, I hear you. It's an expensive and arguably useless attempt to legally exercise your 2A rights. Carrying in your vehicle though, is one of the areas where you're mostly safe (unless you pick your child up at school and such).

As long as you're imagining a better, more consistent system, I'd add that we CCW carriers should essentially go through whatever training would be required to have us treated as auxiliary police officers - to be able to carry anywhere they can carry.

I disagree with the scofflaws who argue you should just carry without regard to the legalities. If you're involved in a shooting, even a justified self-defense situation, you'll have enough problems without carrying illegally.

I also have to put a word in here for carry insurance (USCCA or others) because if it comes to a shooting, you'll need a good lawyer on your side even if it was a justified shooting.

 

[donmatteo]

I have to be honest.... I am a fart sniffing Democrat. Blue to my bone. But it also means I am sensible.

You are? So you elected these people that are doing all this anti-2A legislation then I suppose?

Also....democrat and sensible are two words that shouldn't be in the same sentence. Your post proves that point as well since you helped elect the people that are doing it.

 

[NorCalBusa]

I have to be honest.... I am a fart sniffing Democrat. Blue to my bone. But it also means I am sensible. I honestly cant make heads from tails on some of these CCW laws. Alameda County is over 1100 dollars to get a CCW and Mendocino County is 302 dollars. The requirements are different for each sheriff and county but if you get the permit in one county is is good in the entire state except for those prohibited places. And there are alot of them.There needs to be a set cost and procedure. It is all patchwork.Then I was reading through the requirements for maintaining it... this is what I do not like

The license will be subject to any and all reasonable restrictions or conditions the Sheriff has deemed warranted, including restrictions as to the time, place, manner and circumstances under which the person may carry the concealed firearm.

and

The license or licensed weapon shall be subjected to inspection at any time by the Sheriff or any law enforcement officer.

When I look at the set list of prohibition coupled with the cost and what appears to be a blanket giving up 4th amendment rights.... I dont think it is worth it. The only really thing I would like to do is just keep it in my truck. God knows the difficulty of transporting a weapon around in the state or on my motorcycle. So I think I am just gonna pass on the ccw which is most likely what California wants me to do.. The only real place I want it is in my car and or truck.

I suppose I dont mind some of the restrictions but they will literally turn me into a criminal for moving and not notifying them, or not presenting the pistol for inspection when they feel like looking at it. I really despise Trump and most of his policies but this is one thing I can get behind his administration on. I just hope the ammo check makes its way up to Supreme Court becuase it is costing me alot of money to target shoot now. And I have to be honest. It is nice to have 30 in a clip.. but I really dont need it. I can usually hit what I need to with 3. So I don't mind the capacity restriction.... BUT I think law enforcement should also be restricted to the same conditions. I just want parity with them. Anyway nothing a no-body like me can do about it but donate some mulla to the cause which I have done and continue to do.

And trust me fellas and ladies if any..... You dont want to conceal carry and get caught.... It is expensive and will blemish your reccord tot he point where you may loose your second ammendment rights all together. Lady in Oakland was being burglarized and she woke up and scared them off by firing into the air. It was east oaklan and she fired into the air over the open space... Guess who got arrested? the lady who was being burglarized..........

You think California is bad? Just go out of state with a California issued CCW and see what it does for you...

 

[NorCalBusa]

Well Tony, I hear you. <snip>

I also have to put a word in here for carry insurance (USCCA or others) because if it comes to a shooting, you'll need a good lawyer on your side even if it was a justified shooting.

Point of order; there is no such thing as "CCW insurance"- and the industry is utterly delighted folks perpetuate that notion. It is "prepaid legal expense" and that is vastly different.

 

[Jimi Jah]

Arizona has the solution.

Legal open carry.

 

[Baldy333]

Arizona has the solution.

Legal open carry.

They do, and it's an option for many, but I'm a Californian.

 

[Baldy333]

Point of order; there is no such thing as "CCW insurance"- and the industry is utterly delighted folks perpetuate that notion. It is "prepaid legal expense" and that is vastly different.

Point conceded, but assuming you had a legitimate self-defense shoot, it's still better than facing criminal and civil court costs on your own.

 

[Z Arms LLC]

You're just now realizing how stupid CA gun laws are? lol