Clubs Banning the Sig p320

[grandpapeepap]

https://imgur.com/a/hkwjhqo

 

[BONECUTR]

To add 1 final thought..... Back in the day (im old) I remember when people argued that one should NEVER carry a GLOCK since it didn't have a safety.

There were ranges that would not allow holster fire if you were using a Glock......

Even back then I thought that was crap.

 

[Gawernator]

To add 1 final thought..... Back in the day (im old) I remember when people argued that one should NEVER carry a GLOCK since it didn't have a safety.

There were ranges that would not allow holster fire if you were using a Glock......

Even back then I thought that was crap.

Exactly. Hysteria.

 

[ikeo1]

Right and if I said no 320's cause they are bad I would expect people to mock me.
As a store who has and still sells 320's you are never going to get me to agree that ranges have a good justification for banning them and will continue to recommend people don't shoot at or support those places/matches ect.

I still havn't heard a single argument for other than the shooter of a 320, who is at risk at these ranges/matches?

I don't shoot a lot but watch a fair amount. If rules are followed that gun would never be pointed at anyone else.

The range has to look out for the idiocy of the people shooting man. That's why there's RSO's at static lines and you just don't pay and shoot by yourself.

Same thing with people who want solo gun rentals.

If you don't agree that's fine. More power to ya. I just think people recommending P320's should probably be updated since these days there's a lot of other better firearms for a much better price without all the baggage.

This is coming from someone that still has a lot of sig’s hoping one day Sig will do the right thing.

I don’t blame the range for doing what’s in their best interest. I still like the p320 platform, but just sucks Sig was like, not our fault.. laters

 

[BONECUTR]

I just think people recommending P320's should probably be updated since these days there's a lot of other better firearms for a much better price without all the baggage.

320s on the Roster have manual safety's and are generally very safe firearms.
If someone want a modular (FCU removable) full size ish gun its only them or Echelons.
They are right around the same price. If they are OK with non FCU guns the Walthers are around the same price. M&P's a little cheaper but there is nothing at a much better price thats "better" these days since Glocks are unobtanium. Canniks and Rost Martin are decent but not on the same level.

 

[ikeo1]

320s on the Roster have manual safety's and are generally very safe firearms.
If someone want a modular (FCU removable) full size ish gun its only them or Echelons.
They are right around the same price. If they are OK with non FCU guns the Walthers are around the same price. M&P's a little cheaper but there is nothing at a much better price thats "better" these days since Glocks are unobtanium. Canniks and Rost Martin are decent but not on the same level.

The Echelons are the rage right now and after shooting them, they're ok. I shot the M&P and it's also nice.. If you're going to do the 1000's like you said, its better to buy individual firearms. After the grips barrels, etc. new setups cost roughly as much as a new firearm. The legion X5 and the Carry ZEV cost the same as getting a glock at the time and or something else.

I get what you're saying. I'm the primary consumer that bought caniks, glock, m&p's and sig. Currently, i'd be recommending echelons or m&p's for now. Until the new roster offering come through, which from my other post is looking like they'll come. The PDP is also good. The FCU was nice but like you said, people had a lot of problems because they kept tinkering with it. Mine has the gray guns trigger, the tungsten weight, tungsten guide rod, and customized grip. I can't use it and it pains me. I have 15k rounds through this particular one.

What can you do.. I'm not mad at the range... i use my glock now.. I get both sides, but for me shooting is shooting. I'm itching for a Dan Wesson now though.

 

[BONECUTR]

The FCU was nice but like you said, people had a lot of problems because they kept tinkering with it. Mine has the gray guns trigger, the tungsten weight, tungsten guide rod, and customized grip. I can't use it and it pains me. I have 15k rounds through this particular one.

What can you do..

This sums up what Ive been saying..... The guns seem to be fine (I have a X5 Legion with a few thousand rounds that all Ive done is remove the Mag Disconnect)

People who don't know what they are doing tinkering with it is the issue IMHO. You have 15k in rounds thru yours but you are still supportive of ranges banning them. Im not sure the logic makes sense to me.

 

[grandpapeepap]

This sums up what Ive been saying..... The guns seem to be fine (I have a X5 Legion with a few thousand rounds that all Ive done is remove the Mag Disconnect)

People who don't know what they are doing tinkering with it is the issue IMHO. You have 15k in rounds thru yours but you are still supportive of ranges banning them. Im not sure the logic makes sense to me.

"their house their rules" probably is the logic since thats kind of what hes said. But i dont want to put words in his mouth

 

[ikeo1]

This sums up what Ive been saying..... The guns seem to be fine (I have a X5 Legion with a few thousand rounds that all Ive done is remove the Mag Disconnect)

People who don't know what they are doing tinkering with it is the issue IMHO. You have 15k in rounds thru yours but you are still supportive of ranges banning them. Im not sure the logic makes sense to me.

"their house their rules" probably is the logic since thats kind of what hes said. But i dont want to put words in his mouth

^ this is pretty much it.. I care more about sending rounds down than i do what sends it down. For me, the brand is just a tool. I like having several tools to choose from, if I'm not allowed to use one, then I'll use another to get the job done. I have other firearms with just as many rounds now and I'm probably more versatile.

 

[21SF 2.0]

Nah the P226 is still arguably a near-perfectly designed handgun, and the P365 is the best selling handgun in America.

After the way they handled it and basically called anyone who didnt believe them anti gun, I sold my sigs and I will never own another.
The p365 is awesome, prone to breaking but it is pretty cool. Almost got one before sigs comments, I’m glad it was always down for repair when I tried to rent them lol

 

[Gawernator]

After the way they handled it and basically called anyone who didnt believe them anti gun, I sold my sigs and I will never own another.
The p365 is awesome, prone to breaking but it is pretty cool. Almost got one before sigs comments, I’m glad it was always down for repair when I tried to rent them lol

Well, the facts have mostly proven them correct. It's the same Glock hysteria from the 80's to 00's reborn

 

[grandpapeepap]

Well, the facts have mostly proven them correct. It's the same Glock hysteria from the 80's to 00's reborn

whats the most common theme amongst these two situations? Cops having issues

 

[ikeo1]

Well, the facts have mostly proven them correct. It's the same Glock hysteria from the 80's to 00's reborn

The problem i have with the statements, it's like you guys don't believe when I tell you I saw things first hand from multiple people where their frames blew up and thankfully no big injuries.

Some were stock, some were modified but since they switched platforms we don't have the same frequency or types of issues they had and with arguably more people.

Where you guys call it hysteria and fake or reports. For me, it's less issues on the range and fewer range accidents. It doesn't always end a life, but broken frames were the main issue. I just don't see that anymore since the ban at the club i'm at.

 

[1911-CV]

The problem i have with the statements, it's like you guys don't believe when I tell you I saw things first hand from multiple people where their frames blew up and thankfully no big injuries.

Some were stock, some were modified but since they switched platforms we don't have the same frequency or types of issues they had and with arguably more people.

Where you guys call it hysteria and fake or reports. For me, it's less issues on the range and fewer range accidents. It doesn't always end a life, but broken frames were the main issue. I just don't see that anymore since the ban at the club i'm at.

This actually helped (I think). You've seen the (potential) frame issue. A lot of the focus has been on the claims of uncommanded discharge that get a lot more press.

 

[Gawernator]

The problem i have with the statements, it's like you guys don't believe when I tell you I saw things first hand from multiple people where their frames blew up and thankfully no big injuries.

Some were stock, some were modified but since they switched platforms we don't have the same frequency or types of issues they had and with arguably more people.

Where you guys call it hysteria and fake or reports. For me, it's less issues on the range and fewer range accidents. It doesn't always end a life, but broken frames were the main issue. I just don't see that anymore since the ban at the club i'm at.

I don’t doubt you’ve seen that stuff happen but accidents happen with anything

 

[weaverftw]

The problem i have with the statements, it's like you guys don't believe when I tell you I saw things first hand from multiple people where their frames blew up and thankfully no big injuries.

Some were stock, some were modified but since they switched platforms we don't have the same frequency or types of issues they had and with arguably more people.

Where you guys call it hysteria and fake or reports. For me, it's less issues on the range and fewer range accidents. It doesn't always end a life, but broken frames were the main issue. I just don't see that anymore since the ban at the club i'm at.

I don’t think our position and your experiences are at odds. First of all, no one is talking about frames blowing up when they talk about p320 issues, they’re talking about uncommanded discharges. So I assume that is what 99% of people here are referring to. Your posts are actually the first I’ve heard of sig frames blowing up.

Second, no one is saying your experiences didn’t happen. But they are an anecdote. Each of the dozen or so high profile “sigcidents” you see online are each an anecdote. You cannot draw conclusions from anecdotes; you need data. And with 5 million p320s out there, you would expect to see a good amount of anecdotes about guns going off, blowing up, etc. Same with any gun. Maybe you see more of those with p320s because they’re massively popular, or maybe it’s a total statistical fluke. If you have 100k people roll dice 20 times, someone is gonna roll 20 6s, that doesn’t mean their dice are rigged. That’s all we’re saying. Not a slight on you or disbelieving what you’ve seen, just a different interpretation of the available data

 

[ikeo1]

I don’t think our position and your experiences are at odds. First of all, no one is talking about frames blowing up when they talk about p320 issues, they’re talking about commanded discharges. So I assume that is what 99% of people here are referring to. Your posts are actually the first I’ve heard of sig frames blowing up.

Second, no one is saying your experiences didn’t happen. But they are an anecdote. Each of the dozen or so high profile “sigcidents” you see online are each an anecdote. You cannot draw conclusions from anecdotes; you need data. And with 5 million p320s out there, you would expect to see a good amount of anecdotes about guns going off, blowing up, etc. Same with any gun. Maybe you see more of those with p320s because they’re massively popular, or maybe it’s a total statistical fluke. If you have 100k people roll dice 20 times, someone is gonna roll 20 6s, that doesn’t mean their dice are rigged. That’s all we’re saying. Not a slight on you or disbelieving what you’ve seen, just a different interpretation of the available data

I think the data already shows it and the people who fault ranges for taking action on the data is proof enough. Like I said, I have skin in the game but I get why they're doing it. Very different than people saying, people are FUDD's etc and it's not a real thing. I'm just saying it's a real thing where I'm at. One data point out of many.

For the high profile incidents there are many that aren't reported so it goes both ways. A lot of the ones I've seen aren't reported, I will say though it is consistent on that platform. I can say no other firearm in the last 6 years I've been doing this has had the same type of incident. I've seen a lot already, but there's definitely something up with the Sig IMO, it's just my opinion and I own it but I think it's more of a tolerance / QA issue. If you got a good one you're fine but that % that didn't is kinda screwed.

 

[grandpapeepap]

a bunch of anecdotal experiences compiled becomes data

 

[BubbaLa88]

Added to my collection,ever hear of "Black Talons" ? Got a box of 9 mm

 

[grandpapeepap]

Added to my collection,ever hear of "Black Talons" ? Got a box of 9 mm

thats some cool legacy ammo