CCW Car Storage - How to secure your weapon in an automobile

[Nor*Cal]

Too bad the other site isn't working worth a crap. Librarian had a very detailed, California-specific thread on this topic posted there.

When I did my research on this I recall that neither the glove box, nor the center console was legal but a locking container (safe) inside either was acceptable. I ended up mounting a small safe inside the cavernous center console of my pick-up. Not very convenient and useless if you need your piece in a hurry. But legal (at the time anyway).

PC 25140, discussed above, is still in force.

tundraboomer is correct. An OEM glove box or center console even if they lock are not legal for firearm storage. However, a locking container (safe) inside either of those locations is legal for gun storage.

A highly recommend the Console Vault for those who have vehicles which they support. I've had two vehicles with Console Vaults and they were great. I'm about to buy my third for my new truck.

 

[BunnySloper]

Technically, a console box is a box inside of the console compartment. At any rate, does not apply to a person with a valid CCW permit.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Under the seat lock box. But now they have passenger seat easy access headrest safe. Looks interesting.

 

[4super9]

To echo others here, I have a Lifepod with a cable wrapped around a seat post. It does not fit under my front seat, but rather, well hidden under the floor mat in the rear. The cable is just long enough to allow me to reach behind and pull it up to the top of my center armrest. From there, I can discreetly place my firearm and move the safe back behind my seat, without anyone the wiser.

 

[arm3drv]

Cable locked safe under the passenger seat on all 3 cars that I use…..would also be great to get a custom made safe on my CanAm for when I’m riding

 

[Dvrjon]

Under the seat lock box. But now they have passenger seat easy access headrest safe. Looks interesting.

The Headrest Safe Co. Safety Precautions (Page 4)

Do not store loaded guns in this unit.

If you have a passenger with you, you need to try to not muzzle them when you place or retrieve the gun.
When doing so, you raise the gun into a visible sight plane for folks outside to see it.
If you are in a car accident, I question how safe (pun) your passenger’s head will be crashing into this thing.

Other than that, it seems really expensive and you have to buy the matching driver side headrest to balance the look of the interior.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

The Headrest Safe Co. Safety Precautions (Page 4)

If you have a passenger with you, you need to try to not muzzle them when you place or retrieve the gun.
When doing so, you raise the gun into a visible sight plane for folks outside to see it.
If you are in a car accident, I question how safe (pun) your passenger’s head will be crashing into this thing.

Other than that, it seems really expensive and you have to buy the matching driver side headrest to balance the look of the interior.

They have to say that in case someone puts their Sig P320 in there

 

[colossians323]

Isn't a locked glove box a locked container?
Doesn't your center console of glove box lock?

 

[colossians323]

tundraboomer is correct. An OEM glove box or center console even if they lock are not legal for firearm storage. However, a locking container (safe) inside either of those locations is legal for gun storage.

A highly recommend the Console Vault for those who have vehicles which they support. I've had two vehicles with Console Vaults and they were great. I'm about to buy my third for my new truck.

why is a locking glove box not a locked container?

 

[Dvrjon]

Isn't a locked glove box a locked container?
Doesn't your center console of glove box lock?

why is a locking glove box not a locked container?

Because the statute, CA PEN 16850 , specifically says it isn’t.

16850. ​

As used in this part, “locked container” means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term “locked container” does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

 

[colossians323]

Because the statute, CA PEN 16850 , specifically says it isn’t.

Interesting, if it has a key lock, it is not a locked container. That seems to be contradictory at best

 

[Dvrjon]

Interesting, if it has a key lock, it is not a locked container. That seems to be contradictory at best

No, it’s definitive. It identifies two items which are not included in the definition.

 

[colossians323]

No, it’s definitive. It identifies two items which are not included in the definition.

Not really, there is plenty of ambiguity there, other than the fact that they don't want you to be able to defend yourself with a gun.

 

[Dvrjon]

Not really, there is plenty of ambiguity there, other than the fact that they don't want you to be able to defend yourself with a gun.

You asked a question and I provided you with the statute which answers your question.
If you believe there is ambiguity in the statute, please contact your California legislative representative and let them know how the statute must be changed to alleviate the "ambiguity" you perceive.

 

[1911-CV]

I'm not advocating for this, but the 2020 legal analysis referenced earlier in this thread (https://crpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Info-Bulletin-Storing-Handguns-In-Vehicles.pdf) points out that the 'permanently affixed' part seems to be optional under the code PC 25140(a). It appears (not being an attorney) that just a locked container 'out of plain view' satisfies the statute. Does someone with greater legal chops want to chime in?

PC25140
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), a person shall, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle, lock the handgun in the vehicle’s trunk, lock the handgun in a locked container and place the container out of plain view, lock the handgun in a locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle’s interior and not in plain view, or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box.

 

[Dvrjon]

I'm not advocating for this, but the 2020 legal analysis referenced earlier in this thread (https://crpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Info-Bulletin-Storing-Handguns-In-Vehicles.pdf) points out that the 'permanently affixed' part seems to be optional under the code PC 25140(a). It appears (not being an attorney) that just a locked container 'out of plain view' satisfies the statute. Does someone with greater legal chops want to chime in?

PC25140
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), a person shall, when leaving a handgun in an unattended vehicle, lock the handgun in the vehicle’s trunk, lock the handgun in a locked container and place the container out of plain view, lock the handgun in a locked container that is permanently affixed to the vehicle’s interior and not in plain view, or lock the handgun in a locked toolbox or utility box.

That's a correct read, but the cited Information Bulletin doesn’t point out that it, “seems to be optional”. The Bulletin states,

Finally, if using the “locked container” option, the container itself does not need to be permanently affixed to the vehicle as this is superfluous to the (other) option that only requires the container be placed out of “plain view”

The author was made aware of the potential conflict between the definition of locked container prohibitions on the use of the "utility or glove compartment" of the vehicle. It was suggested that it would be helpful to identify alternative after-market fixed storage as acceptable, while retaining movable storage which can be placed out of plain view. This was the resultant language...two options; one fixed storage out of view and one which can be placed out of view.

But, affixing the container in some way (cable, etc.) would further deter the thief.

Locked toolbox or utility box came in the next year to deal with pickup trucks.

 

[NorCalBusa]

This is false correct?

Yes, it is false

 

[Dvrjon]

OK, sit down, get comfy...this is gonna hurt your brains....

For CCW it must be from CA DOJ Roster. For anything else-locked container

Experimentalist said:
I think Palmaris was referencing the CA DOJ security container roster. Not the CA DOJ handgun roster.

I believe the Governor recently signed legislation mandating storage of firearms within a security container on the CA DOJ approved container list, with some exceptions.

Palmaris was discussing vehicle storage, not firearm Roster. The state has blessed us with a Roster of Firearm Safety Devices (FSDs) Certified for Sale under CA PEN 23650 and CA PEN 23655. Regarding Palmaris' statement that the CCW holder needs to use a container on the Roster of FSDs, but others don't, he appears to be correct.

SB 2 gave us CA PEN 26230:

(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), except under paragraph (21) or (28) of subdivision (a), a licensee may transport a firearm and ammunition within their vehicle so long as the firearm is locked in a lock box, as defined in subdivision (y ) of Section 4082 and subdivision (b) of Section 4094 of Title 11 of the California Code of Regulations, and the lock box is a firearm safety device, as defined in Section 16540, that is listed on the department’s Roster of Firearm Safety Devices Certified for Sale pursuant to Sections 23650 and 23655. Nothing in this subdivision is intended to preempt local laws placing more restrictive requirements upon the storage of firearms in vehicles.

Note that covers ONLY TRANSPORT, and not storage. This gets monumentally stupid because CA PEN 25140, Storage in Vehicles, uses the term "locked container", not "lock box", so it doesn't appear to impact "storage", just transport.

It also doesn't appear to affect the standard transportation of firearms statute, CA PEN 25610:

25610.
Section 25400 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person for any purpose specified in Sections 25510 to 25595, inclusive, provided that either of the following applies to the firearm:

(a) The firearm is unloaded, within a motor vehicle, and locked in the vehicle’s trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle.

(b) The firearm is unloaded, carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle, and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.

Locked container is defined in CA PEN 16850:

16850.
As used in this part, “locked container” means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term “locked container” does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

"Locked containers" don't appear to be included in the OAG Roster, as the SB2 provisions appear to rely solely upon the definition of FSDs in 16540.

Got it? Simple.

 

[1911-CV]

PC 26230 is the section defining the 'prohibited places' under SB2 (26230(a)). Section (b) describes the container required for a CCW holder to transport a firearm onto the places described in (a). How much of this is covered by the current federal injunction?

 

[Dvrjon]

PC 26230 is the section defining the 'prohibited places' under SB2 (26230(a)). Section (b) describes the container required for a CCW holder to transport a firearm onto the places described in (a). How much of this is covered by the current federal injunction?

Remember, these are the results of a 9th Circuit, 3-judge panel Decision to affirm or deny the lower court's findings regarding a preliminary injunction against the provisions. There has been a request for appeal to the Court for en banc hearing on the issues. (There were a couple of cases joined in this effort in California (May/Carraleo v. Bonta, and Hawaii (Wolford v. Lopez).) These findings are from the CA 9 regarding May/Carraleo:

GO.

We affirm the injunction insofar as it enjoins Defendant from implementing or enforcing California Penal Code sections 26230(a)(7), (8), (10), (22), (23), and (26).

We affirm the injunction (these cannot be enforced now) with respect to:

• hospitals and similar medical facilities,
• public transit,
• gatherings that require a permit,
• places of worship,
• financial institutions,
• parking areas and similar areas connected to those places, and
• the new default rule as to private property.

NO GO.

We reverse the injunction (these can be enforced now) insofar as it enjoins Defendant from implementing or enforcing California Penal Code sections 26230(a)(9), (11), (12), (13), (15), (16), (17), (19), and (20) and insofar as it enjoins Defendant from implementing or enforcing California Penal Code section 26230(a) with respect to parking areas connected to sensitive places.

We otherwise reverse the preliminary injunction, thereby reversing the injunction with respect to:

• bars and restaurants that serve alcohol,
• playgrounds,
• youth centers,
• parks,
• athletic areas,
• athletic facilities,
• most real property under the control of the Department of Parks and Recreation or Department of Fish and Wildlife,
• casinos and similar gambling establishments,
• stadiums,
• arenas,
• public libraries,
• amusement parks,
• zoos, and museums
• parking areas and similar areas connected to those places; and
• all parking areas connected to other sensitive places listed in the statute.