Who's Re-Loading 9mm Major?

[weaverftw]

I put the post in Competition because 9mm Major is such a niche competition-oriented topic that I figured the odds of finding people with firsthand experience would be much higher there than in the Reloading section.

And to be clear, I do appreciate the advice regarding USPSA fundamentals and areas for improvement. Being new to the sport, I know there’s a massive amount for me to learn and improve on.

My main point throughout this thread was simply that I was specifically looking at 9 Major from a scoring/equipment perspective rather than a training shortcut or substitute for fundamentals.

I had already weighed many of the pros/cons before posting, which is why I was mainly hoping to hear from people with firsthand experience loading and running it. So that I could see first hand experiences. The information across the web is not exactly straightforward.

As for TTI, I suspect most of their response is naturally going to lean toward CYA territory, which is understandable.

Their response:



That’s actually the part I’m most interested in understanding realistically.

If the expected service life of the frame/slide is something like 100k rounds and 9 Major hypothetically cuts that in half, that’s probably still acceptable for the amount I realistically shoot.

What would concern me more is if Major dramatically shortened the lifespan of non-consumable (slide/frame/grip etc.) or semi-consumable parts like the extractor, ejector, locking surfaces, firing pin system, etc. into very low round-count territory.

Not sure what the regular warranty situation is with TTI but I would point blank ask them, “if I run 9mm major and something breaks (slide crack etc) would you honor a warranty replacement?” Just to see what they say and know what your $ risk is.

Editing to add if maybe also ask about availability of replacements slides or other parts in general, some manufacturers don’t even sell replacement slides (cough, CZ, cough cough) and if your gum is limited edition etc there might not be anything available even if you want to pay for it…

 

[ikeo1]

That’s actually the part I’m most interested in understanding realistically.

If the expected service life of the frame/slide is something like 100k rounds and 9 Major hypothetically cuts that in half, that’s probably still acceptable for the amount I realistically shoot.

What would concern me more is if Major dramatically shortened the lifespan of non-consumable (slide/frame/grip etc.) or semi-consumable parts like the extractor, ejector, locking surfaces, firing pin system, etc. into very low round-count territory.

I would actually say it's much less than that.. Specifically for the barrel which also isn't cheap. The slide is also at risk for cracking. It does dramatically shorten the life which was why I mentioned it in the first place. It's a lot of wear and if you're going to shoot competition its usually high volume. Not including practice time.

I answered from a competition viewpoint after seeing many cracked slides and my own barrel replacements after time. Again, its your choice but it's not just CYA 2011's are known for mechanical failures all the time.

 

[ikeo1]

Not sure what the regular warranty situation is with TTI but I would point blank ask them, “if I run 9mm major and something breaks (slide crack etc) would you honor a warranty replacement?” Just to see what they say and know what your $ risk is.

That's not a manufacturer defect, its wear and tear...

 

[weaverftw]

That's not a manufacturer defect, its wear and tear...

I have to disagree, this is not a black and white situation. If you’re talking about wearing out a recoil spring or the notch in the slide where the slide stop catches it wearing out over time from releasing the slide with the slide stop, sure that’s wear and tear. An actual CRACK in the slide is totally different and indicates a weak point or defect in the metal structure. I don’t manufacture guns but I do forge knives and I know there are many factors that go into the hardness/toughness of steel and how you can create weak or failure-prone areas by having sharp edges, making errors in the forging or heat treating process, etc. There can be underlying manufacturing defects that might not ever surface as a problem with minor loads, but could become apparent with major loads.

Not to mention, some manufacturers (Sig comes to mind) really cover a lot of questionable stuff… some companies have a policy of “if it breaks, send it to us and we’ll fix it” and don’t really quibble about the cause; it would be good to know how TTI operates in the warranty arena before shooting major loads IMO.

 

[ikeo1]

I have to disagree, this is not a black and white situation. If you’re talking about wearing out a recoil spring or the notch in the slide where the slide stop catches it wearing out over time from releasing the slide with the slide stop, sure that’s wear and tear. An actual CRACK in the slide is totally different and indicates a weak point or defect in the metal structure. I don’t manufacture guns but I do forge knives and I know there are many factors that go into the hardness/toughness of steel and how you can create weak or failure-prone areas by having sharp edges, making errors in the forging or heat treating process, etc. There can be underlying manufacturing defects that might not ever surface as a problem with minor loads, but could become apparent with major loads.

Not to mention, some manufacturers (Sig comes to mind) really cover a lot of questionable stuff… some companies have a policy of “if it breaks, send it to us and we’ll fix it” and don’t really quibble about the cause; it would be good to know how TTI operates in the warranty arena before shooting major loads IMO.

He's using 9 major reloads... It's not factory ammo. That's the difference.

Plenty of people blew up their gun with the P320 and sig blamed reloads and not their unsupported chamber.. Many frames were busted without a warranty filled.

9 major takes it another level with mixed brass... Good luck trying to send that for warranty repair.

 

[weaverftw]

He's using 9 major reloads... It's not factory ammo. That's the difference.

Plenty of people blew up their gun with the P320 and sig blamed reloads and not their unsupported chamber.. Many frames were busted without a warranty filled.

9 major takes it another level with mixed brass... Good luck trying to send that for warranty repair.

Right, I agree with this part, that’s why I would ask them ahead of time. If they say “sure, we built it to handle that pressure, if there’s a major failure we’ll back it up” that would make OP feel much more comfortable with the decision to shoot major. I suspect they’ll say no, but worth asking. I get car parts from a retailer who will accept returns for ANY reason, I send them thrashed brake rotors from track use and they ship me new ones for the cost of shipping… so you never know.

I wish I had more experience to contribute to OP’s main ask, but I don’t load 9mm major. I do wonder why so many major loads seem to use 124gr when you’d think 147 would allow lower pressures. Maybe not enough room in the case for the powder without compressing it? The 147s I am loading now (xtreme fmj) allow a really long OAL and leave a ton of room in the case so I would think you could do it with these at least… if I was going to load major I would try to do the lowest pressure possible just in case.

 

[Brandon Breeze]

Precious said it himself (within the first 35 seconds):

RIght on the TTI website:

 

[ikeo1]

Precious said it himself (within the first 35 seconds):

It = what? You can use 9 I don’t think anyone is saying you can’t. The issue at hand is it the best thing to do

I like the gun. I know people who have them. I know people who shoot 9 major. They aren’t the same people, but you can be the first!

 

[Brandon Breeze]

It = what? You can use 9 I don’t think anyone is saying you can’t. The issue at hand is it the best thing to do

Now I'm more curious why the owner of the company is out saying it can shoot 9 Major, or even 9mm Magnum, if they don't actually recommend doing that. Any 9mm pistol can shoot 9mm Major or 9mm Magnum, just how long will it last with the rounds is the difference.



Looking at 9mm Major with 147g bullets, it would only need to go 1150 feet per second to make Major PF with a little wiggle room. That seems a LOT more reasonable, more in the +P+ realm. So still spicy, but not quite 9mm Major spicy from a lighter projectile.

 

[ikeo1]

Now I'm more curious why the owner of the company is out saying it can shoot 9 Major, or even 9mm Magnum, if they don't actually recommend doing that. Any 9mm pistol can shoot 9mm Major or 9mm Magnum, just how long will it last with the rounds is the difference.

View attachment 188839

Looking at 9mm Major with 147g bullets, it would only need to go 1150 feet per second to make Major PF with a little wiggle room. That seems a LOT more reasonable.

You’ll notice your image uses the case I recommended, that’s the shell shock case.

He says it works but it’s not for competition. I think you’re mixing it up. The 2 gun and 3 gun championships is on minor not major PF. The wear and tear is a lot higher in competition.

Again if you want to run it go ahead but I think you’ll find they don’t suggest running it for USPSA Open.

You’re convoluting the capability vs the practicality of it. You can do it but no where does he say use major PF in competition setting.. You can do it!

At this point I’ll watch your vid when you load up 9 major.

If you’re not going to use once fired brass specifically you might want to look at shell shock cases. They can do what you want but realistically get another gun for competition. You gain nothing by using a sand viper major. You’re at a disadvantage in open. If you have another gun go to a different division and shoot regular 9mm or 38SC

Otherwise you’re giving your SV unecessary wear and really expensive ammo for being new

 

[weaverftw]

Precious said it himself (within the first 35 seconds):

RIght on the TTI website:
View attachment 188838

You know, I knew it was a nice gun (When you bumped into my Omega Seamaster with it on Sunday my first thought was “oh F- I hope the Sand Viper didn’t get scratched” lol) but now I actually am going to ask you to let me shoot it haha

 

[rjww1945]

Then I’ll move this to reloading since this doesn’t belong in competition.

Major scoring only helps with Charlie’s and Deltas but that only really matters when you’re farther along.

Your premise is like saying you want to drive a Porsche in a F1 race with Chinese tires. You also shouldn’t be mixing head stamps for 9 major with range brass.

"…You want to drive a Porsche in an F1 race with Chinese tires"

I feel so personally attacked… how did you know?

 

[exnds]

You know, I knew it was a nice gun (When you bumped into my Omega Seamaster with it on Sunday my first thought was “oh F- I hope the Sand Viper didn’t get scratched” lol) but now I actually am going to ask you to let me shoot it haha

Yeah. My money is on the Seamaster. If it’s a NTTD that would be an equal dollar value collision. lol

 

[Brandon Breeze]

You know, I knew it was a nice gun (When you bumped into my Omega Seamaster with it on Sunday my first thought was “oh F- I hope the Sand Viper didn’t get scratched” lol) but now I actually am going to ask you to let me shoot it haha

You can shoot it any time, my apologies as I didn't know I hit your watch! I'm not worried about wear and tear on the Sand Viper and you're welcome to shoot it any time. Anyone who has shot it, already have any idea of how insane it is to shoot, then they are still blown away when they shoot it.

This is always my problem with expensive things, I actually use them, where most people will just stick them in the safe and wind up putting less than 500 rounds through it, ever. I'm already almost to 2k rounds in with it and I've only owned it for 2 months.

If you have a belt with the Safariland QLS system you could even run it on a stage, lol.

 

[weaverftw]

Yeah. My money is on the Seamaster. If it’s a NTTD that would be an equal dollar value collision. lol

Alas it is the humble pleb black dial. The NTTD is awesome but I couldn’t justify the price difference.

She’s good though, that crystal is tough and I’ve banged it against enough doorknobs and granite boulders to not wince every time anymore

 

[Hit Factor]

If you have a belt with the Safariland QLS system you could even run it on a stage, lol.

 

[ikeo1]

This is always my problem with expensive things, I actually use them, where most people will just stick them in the safe and wind up putting less than 500 rounds through it, ever.

It's not that it's expensive. In the grand scheme of things, its affordable when you get to open class. If money wasn't an issue, buy a proper open gun and shoot open the way it was meant to be, then you'll at least get the benefits of learning from an open gun. Open guns start around 7k+ up to 13k+ I see plenty of people run Infinity's which are nicer, but those are purpose built for major.

The difference is your can run major, but its better at 9 minor. You keep trying to make it something its not. No one is afraid of 9 major or you using expensive things. I used to shoot 15k rounds a year. None of my firearms have less than 5k rounds through them the highest 15k+.

I think being new to the sport, maintenance is still new for you. You should have two of these if you're going to run them for competition and plenty of people have multiple infinity's or back up open guns. The money isn't the issue.

We all use our equipment in competition, i don't think you get the volume of shooting you're going to expect. You should have replacement barrel, springs, and ejectors for your gun at a minimum let alone a slide.

 

[weaverftw]

You can shoot it any time, my apologies as I didn't know I hit your watch! I'm not worried about wear and tear on the Sand Viper and you're welcome to shoot it any time. Anyone who has shot it, already have any idea of how insane it is to shoot, then they are still blown away when they shoot it.

This is always my problem with expensive things, I actually use them, where most people will just stick them in the safe and wind up putting less than 500 rounds through it, ever. I'm already almost to 2k rounds in with it and I've only owned it for 2 months.

If you have a belt with the Safariland QLS system you could even run it on a stage, lol.

Haha all good dude, I was joking, I wear this watch backpacking and working on my car etc and smash it into stuff all the time. Even if you broke the crystal I couldn’t be mad as I’m the one who wore it to a sport where explosions are going off 4 inches away from it lol

Next time I see you somewhere other than a match (EDPS practice maybe) I’ll take you up on the offer to shoot the Sand Viper. You can shoot my DWX if you want but I don’t have anything quite as fancy. I agree on using our nice things… I’ve put about 1.5k through my DWX in a month and it’s the nicest gun I have. And I’m sure I’ll blow up the engine in my S5 from tracking it tuned on e85 but you know what, it’s a blast in the meantime haha

 

[Brandon Breeze]

Fair points on maintenance and long-term wear. I definitely don’t disagree that dedicated Open guns are purpose-built around Major PF in a way the Sand Viper isn’t even though it doesn't change me wanting to shoot it in competition. Maybe I'll be able to figure out a comp block and use it in LO instead, who knows.

I also completely understand why serious Open shooters keep spare guns/parts on hand once round counts get high enough. I have mountains of parts for all of my pews.

I think where we differ is that I’m not necessarily trying to turn the SV into the “ultimate” Open gun or optimize for national-level competition. I’m mostly interested in exploring whether Major PF is reasonably viable in the platform I already own and enjoy shooting.

If the answer ends up being:

“Yes, it works, but wear becomes unreasonable long-term”

Then that’s still useful information and I’ll probably just go back to Minor.

But if it turns out the gun handles it reasonably well with sensible loads and maintenance intervals, then it could still be a fun experiment and a worthwhile scoring advantage while I continue improving the fundamentals side of the game.

Approaching 2k rounds with Minor and there is very little wear on the internals.

Either way, I appreciate the discussion and the insight from people who have more long-term Open experience than I do, or in some cases simply more exposure to the Open division.

 

[weaverftw]

It's not that it's expensive. In the grand scheme of things, its affordable when you get to open class. If money wasn't an issue, buy a proper open gun and shoot open the way it was meant to be, then you'll at least get the benefits of learning from an open gun. Open guns start around 7k+ up to 13k+ I see plenty of people run Infinity's which are nicer, but those are purpose built for major.

The difference is your can run major, but its better at 9 minor. You keep trying to make it something its not. No one is afraid of 9 major or you using expensive things. I used to shoot 15k rounds a year. None of my firearms have less than 5k rounds through them the highest 15k+.

I think being new to the sport, maintenance is still new for you. You should have two of these if you're going to run them for competition and plenty of people have multiple infinity's or back up open guns. The money isn't the issue.

We all use our equipment in competition, i don't think you get the volume of shooting you're going to expect. You should have replacement barrel, springs, and ejectors for your gun at a minimum let alone a slide.

I think he understands it’s not ideal for Open. It’s his prize gun and he wants to shoot it in competition doing something fun that is new to him, he knows he still needs to concentrate mostly on fundamentals, etc but at the same time loading major will give him a big boost in scoring and he just wanted advice on that journey. Not sure what the inquisition is all about.

Most people I’ve spoken to have zero interest in shooting a “real” open gun and just want to shoot what they love, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. What’s the worst that could happen, he learns a $8k lesson when the frame gives up and hits his medical insurance deductible from the hand surgery.

And implying a 8k gun (prob more in CA) is not that expensive is pretty silly.