Question When should I move to competing with PCC?

[john_marsten_1873]

When's a good time to focus on a different division?
How have some of you planned or worked those transitions?

So my first USPSA (or any competition league) match was July of last year. Just finished my eighth match this past weekend which was a classifier where I shot 2 divisions, CO (for the first time) and Production.

I got B class for my initial CO division. I was hoping to get A class for Prod but moved to B - I actually thought I was already B

Anyhow, my initial goal was to get A class for both Prod and CO and then focus more on PCC but I don't have any objective means of determining "good enough".

I don't really know why I'm choosing A class to change division focus but I figure that's probably the point where I need to focus more on actually, training for competition. Most of my training up to this point has been defense focused with a few competition specific classes, matches and Saturday practices here and there.

Overall, I'd like to hit:
- M in USPSA and Steel Challenge for Prod, CO and PCC
- MA for IDPA in corresponding divisions
- Semi-pro for UML 2-gun
- M for PCSL Practical and Competition

Also, want to get "good" at PRS

 

[Atomic Soldier]

Does an m1 carbine count as pcc?

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Does an m1 carbine count as pcc?

Pistol Caliber Carbine

 

[Atomic Soldier]

I understand the acronym quite fine. Some would consider 30 carbine to be a pistol round, others borderline intermediate.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I understand the acronym quite fine. Some would consider 30 carbine to be a pistol round others, borderline intermediate.

Ah. M1 not M1A. That'd be considered rifle.

Competition leagues like USPSA, IDPA, IPSC...generally classify PCC as handgun caliber rounds from 9mm-.45. 22LR is for rimfire rifle/pistol.

 

[ikeo1]

When's a good time to focus on a different division?
How have some of you planned or worked those transitions?

So my first USPSA (or any competition league) match was July of last year. Just finished my eighth match this past weekend which was a classifier where I shot 2 divisions, CO (for the first time) and Production.

I got B class for my initial CO division. I was hoping to get A class for Prod but moved to B - I actually thought I was already B

Anyhow, my initial goal was to get A class for both Prod and CO and then focus more on PCC but I don't have any objective means of determining "good enough".

I don't really know why I'm choosing A class to change division focus but I figure that's probably the point where I need to focus more on actually, training for competition. Most of my training up to this point has been defense focused with a few competition specific classes, matches and Saturday practices here and there.

Overall, I'd like to hit:
- M in USPSA and Steel Challenge for Prod, CO and PCC
- MA for IDPA in corresponding divisions
- Semi-pro for UML 2-gun
- M for PCSL Practical and Competition

Also, want to get "good" at PRS

I wouldn’t worry about the class and focus on the fundamentals. The recent classification changes are focused on making people focus on consistency vs hero or zero. I classified at A for the second time in these things. Try to focus on getting all your classifiers roughly the same.

PCC is its own beast but you might find it’s easier for you. Ultimately the more you dry fire at home the better you’ll be. It’s really more about familiarity with you your weapon and having it act like an extension.

The class will come when your skills are there. It should be secondary more than primary. If you are a true A you could switch to PCC at anytime but if you want M it’s going to take some practice.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I don't really have any shooting goals I just have fun with it, but PCC is super fun. My favorite kind of matches are carbine matches and PCC scratches that itch a bit and is good for training rifle. I actually switched back to pistol primarily because I am much worse at shooting a pistol. The fundamentals aren't that different between pistol and rifle, the hard parts are never marksmanship but transitions and stage planning. I think PCC is really fun though.

 

[jhsd20]

IMO, focusing on class takes the fun away from competitive shooting. Goals should revolve around match performance, not class.
Classes are not meant to be a belt system like in martial arts, they are meant to divide you into sections in national events so everyone has a chance to win a prize.

Focusing on class makes the shortest, least complicated stage in the match the most important one. And then comes all the gaming, the overthinking of when to zero a classifier, all the math. Way too much time spent just to be able to tell yourself a third party institution nobody outside your circle even cares about considers you a "Master" at shooting.

Shoot PCC whenever you feel like it. It's a different beast. And it will allow you to focus on movement and footwork because you aiming is easier and you don't have to worry about reloads. Bring that more aggressive movement back into your pistol game.

 

[H. Bowman]

Pistol Caliber Carbine

One of my Blackhawks is in 30 carbine. As well as my Automag II.

 

[doggman61]

I built a Pcc towards the end of last year.
It runs like a champ but I’m concentrating on LO right now until after area 1.
Definitely next classifier match I’ll shoot it and maybe a match before then.
What it comes down to is why ever you have fun with.
That being said I’m %7 away from M and I’d like to hit that mark one day as well.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I'll add that I'm not actually interested in being in a particular class but more so using it as a way to gauge my current level of performance and what skills I need to work on. I do think USPSA has a good classification system with regard to skills development.

And yeah, consistency is key. I want consistent high-performance in both rifle and pistol whether it's a cold start, short or long course, all swingers or disappearing targets...

PCC is more accessible (and less expensive) otherwise I'd be running AR-15. I certainly wish there were more frequent PCSL and UML matches nearby. From what I've experienced, the carbine competition training is different from the defensive tactics. Up to this point, I've mostly trained defensive carbine where for example, I'll move with it in low-ready or sul, duck walking vs. a sprint from position to position. So now I want to get more of the competition experience.

Currently, I've been focusing on stage planning and execution where I'm running the actual plan along with positioning, minimizing movement and traps, blending target transitions and better understanding my threshold for [dynamic] speed and accuracy.

While I understand the more efficient entries, exits and footwork concepts I'm not quite there to focusing heavily on those things yet. If they clearly present an opportunity then I'll take it, but not at the forefront of my stage planning. Also, not currently concerned with shaving off fractions of a second or make up shot efficiency. Before I get to those things I want to be able to smoothly just execute a stage plan with rifle and pistol.

 

[pancakes]

when your momma says your a big boy

 

[jhsd20]

I feel the question you are asking is less "when should I shoot PCC" and more "when should I start doing competition carbine to as part of my goals of being a proficient all around shooter"... As evidenced by your stated goals at the end.

The right person to ask that question might not actually be fellow shooters like us but a professional athletic coach. No professional sportsman gets where they are just by playing their game over and over. NBA players will have drill days, cardio days, weights days, and scrim days. I also don't see training regimens like "you must master layups before we start practicing 3 pointers". Lastly, it's been found in sports performance studies that athletes learn better when they're having fun, so I wouldn't over optimize your training if it makes it tedious. If you are burned out of shooting pistol, give PCC a try without worrying too much of how it may affect pistol growth.

My personal experience is I shoot 1 PCC match for every 3 pistol. I am noticeably faster on PCC and use it to remind myself what fast (for me) feels like. It gives me a first person view of what my pistol shooting should aspire to be. I start increasing PCC ratio more when the gap closes, in order to improve the athletic portion of competition shooting.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I feel the question you are asking is less "when should I shoot PCC" and more "when should I start doing competition carbine to as part of my goals of being a proficient all around shooter"... As evidenced by your stated goals at the end.

This is correct!

While I’m posing it as question for “advice”, I’m more so looking to hear experiences from others how they train/compete across platforms, divisions, leagues, paradigms...

Thanks for sharing your strategy/experience!

While I enjoy the competition and training the fun part or motivation is the skill development. In every aspect of life I guess I like to find my current boundaries and then push beyond them, constantly.

It’s rather exhausting, yet I persist

 

[jhsd20]

In every aspect of life I guess I like to find my current boundaries and then push beyond them, constantly.

We all tell ourselves this, but the truth is the motivation wanes when pushing stops being fun. For me personally this was evidenced most in my professional career.

Edit to add: this is why I also feel that games (both video and live) are so addictive- they allow us to push boundaries while staying fun. Something that modern educational tools have also tried to incorporate: gamefied learning.

 

[PlasticMan]

There is no right time. Just grab your rifle and do it. I actually hate shooting PCC, but it's an excellent way to maintain your skillset and be a good all around multi discipline shooter. I shoot mine every 4th or 5th match religiously unless it's a big match that I planned to shoot LO or CO. If you are a rifle shooter and you normally excel with a handgun, you will almost certainly naturally excel with your PCC. Pistol skills translate to the rifle discipline, but not the other way around. I always refer to the PCC class as the special ed of USPSA, because you basically have to be really bad at it to do really bad at it