What's the deal with unavailability of SPEER projectile components?

[roger_roger]

What it the issue at SPEER They just stopped making bullets? For example the following unavailable for years:
WTB:

SPEEER Bullet .357 125 Grain - Product Number 4012​

 

[NapalmCheese]

I couldn't tell you, but what I can say is they just don't make some things publicly available.

I've been looking for 6mm Fusion or Gold Dot component bullets for years and have never seen a one that wasn't a pulldown.

 

[incognetpanda]

I couldn't tell you, but what I can say is they just don't make some things publicly available.

I've been looking for 6mm Fusion or Gold Dot component bullets for years and have never seen a one that wasn't a pulldown.

might seem silly but do they happen to have the same exact bullet in stock for 9mm? it's obvious I know but sometimes I see them separate not that I can name it off the top of my head but you know

 

[NapalmCheese]

might seem silly but do they happen to have the same exact bullet in stock for 9mm? it's obvious I know but sometimes I see them separate not that I can name it off the top of my head but you know

6mm, not 9mm

I have a .243 that shoots 95 grain factory fusion ammo really well. I reload for most things so wanted to get fusion bullets for it but no luck. So far as I can tell they've never sold fusion OR gold dot bullets smaller than 6.5 as a component.

 

[incognetpanda]

6mm, not 9mm

I have a .243 that shoots 95 grain factory fusion ammo really well. I reload for most things so wanted to get fusion bullets for it but no luck. So far as I can tell they've never sold fusion OR gold dot bullets smaller than 6.5 as a component.

sorry I think I replied to you instead of the .357 guy but I think this would be the closest you could get right here

6mm .243 Diameter 95 Grain Super Shock Tipped With Cannelure 100 Count

6mm .243 Diameter 95 Grain Super Shock Tipped With Cannelure 100 Count by HORNADY AMMUNITION AND BULLETS Streamlined for ultra-flat trajectories. Polymer tip for rapid expansion and maximum energy transfer. Match-grade jacket delivers surgical accuracy. Heavy construction with...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

 

[roger_roger]

sorry I think I replied to you instead of the .357 guy

might seem silly but do they happen to have the same exact bullet in stock for 9mm?

well if I read you correctly and that you are responding that a 9mm is the "same exact bullet" as a .357 Remington Magnum then you are sadly mistaken

 

[roger_roger]

What it the issue at SPEER They just stopped making bullets? For example the following unavailable for years:
WTB:

SPEEER Bullet .357 125 Grain - Product Number 4012​

I am going to answer my own question..

Here's the "deal"....

The Czech industrial group CSG has completed the takeover of The Kinetic group, the leading U.S. manufacturer of small-caliber ammunition.​

The Kinetic Group, which was formed by the spin-off of the Sporting Products division from the publicly traded Vista Outdoor, brings together leading American manufacturers and brands of small-caliber ammunition for pistols, revolvers, rifles and shotguns: Federal, Remington, CCI, Speer and Hevi-Shot. The group also includes the gunpowder brand Alliant Powder. The manufacturing facilities are located in Minnesota, Arkansas, Idaho and Oregon and employ a total of 3,800 people. The headquarters are based in Anoka, Minnesota. It generated $1.5 billion in Revenue in its fiscal year 2024 with $416 million EBITDA.

 

[ikeo1]

...

How is that going to be fixed? the tariffs on China will increase the cost for all the inputs. Primer compound, gun powder, not sure about lead. Hopefully you’ve loaded up on ammo. I expect everything to go up in price next year.

In the US, if they stopped making it, it probably isn’t profitable.

 

[incognetpanda]

well if I read you correctly and that you are responding that a 9mm is the "same exact bullet" as a .357 Remington Magnum then you are sadly mistaken

I see i misread a bit here ngl

 

[roger_roger]

In the US, if they stopped making it, it probably isn’t profitable.

OK, no problem.. Please edit out my reference to Trump. If my 15 minutes edit time had not expired I would be happy to do it myself. (HINT: extend the edit time way beyond 15 minutes.. OK,, just checked and was able to edit my post with the offending reference...)

.. to answer your comment above, let me tell you my personal story on that. I am retired now but for a 40 year career I managed several high energy chemical maufacturing plants. Some of which made very specialized pyrotechnic products (like delay fuses for bombs, simulators, and many other applications) . My last stint was managing a small division of 35 folks. The plant made a niche group of products that were only made right here in America, no where else in the world was the talent, the machinery or the technology in existence. Here is the punch line: about 3 years after i retired the BOD of my parent corp sold the whole thing, lock, stock, and barrel to China. Of course since the products had military application the sale was disguised behind a "broker" from Hong Kong, but the stuff was loaded on many containers and then "disappeared", and the 35 employees were laid off. I don't understand you comment about "profitable", as the division was very profitable, but a huge headache to manage due to the regulation and endless paperwork. Actually, I think the over regulation was the main factor in the BOD decision.

 

[ikeo1]

Actually, I think the over regulation was the main factor in the BOD decision.

In my own dealings with M&A, it’s not surprising that regulations might be a primary driver for the sale. As profitable as a division is, the management and risk associated with an impacted product there's always a risk of losing it. There other factor for the BOD's decision was likely the sale price. That's the thing I don't think can be stopped in America, capitalism. If the unit was profitable, it's likely they got paid a nice multiplier and got rid of the headache.

Your experience then, was similar to an experience I had earlier in the year and what gave me the time to build the site. I worked for a profitable company that was sold. I trained my replacements in India and Australia then laid off. I doubt that's going to stop, In 2018, same thing, acquisition except my I trained my replacement in Poland. The main driver for acquisition is always $$$, get paid up for the work and someone else will continue. Many of you guys worked for companies for decades. These days, I feel like we're all corporate mercenaries. 4-5 years is a long time.

Hope you're enjoying retirement.

 

[NapalmCheese]

sorry I think I replied to you instead of the .357 guy but I think this would be the closest you could get right here

6mm .243 Diameter 95 Grain Super Shock Tipped With Cannelure 100 Count

6mm .243 Diameter 95 Grain Super Shock Tipped With Cannelure 100 Count by HORNADY AMMUNITION AND BULLETS Streamlined for ultra-flat trajectories. Polymer tip for rapid expansion and maximum energy transfer. Match-grade jacket delivers surgical accuracy. Heavy construction with...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

The Hornady SST is a cup and core bullet with a polymer tip and an interlock ring. The Fusion bullet is a swaged lead bullet that's been copper plated and skived to create a bonded bullet with a low expansion velocity threshold. The Gold Dot bullet (in rifles at least) is a swaged lead copper plated skived bullet with a boron coating.

So thanks, and the SST might shoot well, but it's not all that similar to the Fusion (which I know shoots well) or the Gold Dot (which might shoot well).

 

[Dvrjon]

What it the issue at SPEER They just stopped making bullets? For example the following unavailable for years:
WTB:

SPEEER Bullet .357 125 Grain - Product Number 4012​

I asked SPEER:

To: Speer Tech Support
Topic: Technical Services/Bullets

Comment: Do you still offer for private consumer use the SPEER Bullet .357 125 Grain - Product Number 4012? I have looked all over for available stock and it doesn’t seem available. Thanks. Dvrjon.
////////////////////
From: speerexpert Mon, Dec 16, 2024 at 1:24 PM
To: "Dvrjon"

This bullet is still being produced and shipped on a regular basis. Everything on our website is added at complete random so we are unsure of when they will be available there next.

With that we do continue to make and ship all of these products on a regular basis to distributors where it is (sic) then sent to thousands of retailers from there. Thanks,

Cody Barker Technical Service Rep. 2299
River Ave. Lewiston, ID 83501
Office: 866-286-7436

They still make it; it's not in stock on their website because the site is random; they ship to many distributors who then provide to thousands of retailers.
None of which have any in stock.

Mystery solved. Now you know.

 

[roger_roger]

I asked SPEER:
Mystery solved. Now you know.

Thanks for emailing them. I have also emailed them in years past, and actually never got a response, so consider yourself lucky on that !

I am well aware of the SPEER site and have ordered from them in the past. I have two tabs that live on my browser, one is to AMMOSEEK with a 'saved search' for that one and several others, the other tab is the SPEER site you mention, and of course I have a number of 'email me when available' in place at all the usual suspects (midway, etc..)

This is not my first rodeo. Again thanks for your effort but I think the "technical Service Representative" snookered you a little. Words like "random", what does that mean? I would rather have heard -"Oh yes I looked at our factory log plan for this year and the product #4012 is scheduled for production on Oct 15, 2025 with lot numbers sequence starting at 123XYZ" Actually, The cold hard fact is that this projectile has not been available for 4 solid years and they have no plans to make it available to us re-loaders. if they do produce any it will go the the very high profit side for those little factory loaded 20 round boxes you see at Sportmans Warehouse for +$2.25 / a round.

I need to update my profile here on the site to give you and others a little back ground on where I worked for a 40 year career in a high energy chemistry manufacturing plant. We supplied some retail product but most went (perhaps like SPEER??? to military applications..) But the short of the long of it, all such manufactures have a production plan. If I had told my boss, "I have no real plan we just will make product on a random basis for distribution," I can assure you that would have been my last day on the job !!!

But, again, thanks for the effort ! Keep at it, and if you find any I will pay you a finders fee !

 

[Dvrjon]

Thanks for emailing them. I have also emailed them in years past, and actually never got a response, so consider yourself lucky on that !

Luck? I expect Customer Service to respond to a cordial inquiry. And they do.

This is not my first rodeo. Again thanks for your effort but I think the "technical Service Representative" snookered you a little.

No one snookered me. I asked a question and got an answer. Take it for what you will. For myself, I think it's a BS answer, but I don't care. What's more important is you now have more info on a company which you want to support.

But, again, thanks for the effort ! Keep at it, and if you find any I will pay you a finders fee !

To be clear, I'm not looking for anything, especially from Speer.

Best.