Weapon mounted lights and discharging in holster

[EsotericEpsilon]

In light of the P320 discussions (pun not intended), I stumbled upon an article where an officer had his P320 discharge in his holster at an elementary school.

Link: Holstered gun with flashlight discharges

A child told the deputy and a teacher that he made the gun shoot, despite the gun being fully holstered. Upon further investigation, it was determined (and replicated using an unloaded firearm) that the child slipped their finger in the gap between the holster and firearm, successfully reaching the trigger.
The deputy had a P320 with TLR-1 HL inside a Safariland 6000 series holster.

This raises the question: are weapon mounted lights worth it?

I have little ones that will run up to me and give me hugs, or pull on my shirt and ask me to carry them. I feel pretty comfortable considering I carry IWB and they know to respect firearms, but it brings something else to look out for.

Thought I'd bring this for others to consider.

 

[Experimentalist]

There are a couple of issues here, so good topic for discussion.

First, I do not have a light mounted on my CCW weapons. There are many times when I wish to illuminate a space, but do not wish to display a firearm - let alone point in those directions. I keep a separate light clipped inside my pocket (Surefire Stiletto Pro II).

Second, it is unclear to me the correlation between weapon mounted light and the holster gap allowing access to the trigger. It seems such gaps may be present depending on make and model of firearm and the holster manufacturer, with a weak correlation to the presence of a mounted light.

I believe you may be asserting differently, that the presence of a holstered mounted light may force the holster open wider, thus enhancing such gaps?

Either way, if you've drawn your weapon in public then you have decided you are in fear for your life and that employment of that weapon is immediately necessary to stop the threat. The light may aid in subsequent employment of that weapon but I have to ask: How were you able to definitively make those determinations if you weren't first able to see the threat? I would imagine such questions might be asked in Court later...

An independent light may be employed without escalating the situation as display of a firearm might. I can point that light at my friends and family without risking their lives. I can shine it into spaces that are suspicious to me, again without overly escalating the situation. Even better: I can strobe the light if the moment becomes tense, offering a distraction and an opportunity to hopefully evade, and if not, then to reluctantly engage.

Hoping this is helpful.

 

[bonesurf]

Light on my home defense/middle of the night gun. No light on edc. As noted above. Having a separate light is more flexible

 

[Experimentalist]

Bonesurf makes a good point. The question was explicitly for EDC firearms.

For long-arms employed in home defense I have a weapon mounted light. Simultaneous, competent manipulation of a long-arm and a separate light is beyond my current abilities.

I do have a separate light on the night stand, along with electronic ear muffs. The latter simultaneously protect my hearing should things get loud, while greatly enhancing my ability to hear what's going on in the house. Remember, any flash of light at night is likely to be detected throughout the house. Whomever might be there will immediately know you are alert and likely carrying a weapon, increasing the odds you will subsequently be ambushed.

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

There are a couple of issues here, so good topic for discussion.

First, I do not have a light mounted on my CCW weapons. There are many times when I wish to illuminate a space, but do not wish to display a firearm - let alone point in those directions. I keep a separate light clipped inside my pocket (Surefire Stiletto Pro II).

Second, it is unclear to me the correlation between weapon mounted light and the holster gap allowing access to the trigger. It seems such gaps may be present depending on make and model of firearm and the holster manufacturer, with a weak correlation to the presence of a mounted light.

I believe you may be asserting differently, that the presence of a holstered mounted light may force the holster open wider, thus enhancing such gaps?

Either way, if you've drawn your weapon in public then you have decided you are in fear for your life and that employment of that weapon is immediately necessary to stop the threat. The light may aid in subsequent employment of that weapon but I have to ask: How were you able to definitively make those determinations if you weren't first able to see the threat? I would imagine such questions might be asked in Court later...

An independent light may be employed without escalating the situation as display of a firearm might. I can point that light at my friends and family without risking their lives. I can shine it into spaces that are suspicious to me, again without overly escalating the situation. Even better: I can strobe the light if the moment becomes tense, offering a distraction and an opportunity to hopefully evade, and if not, then to reluctantly engage.

Hoping this is helpful.

To your first point, yes I believe that to be a better option, as one would not want to produce a firearm in a situation that would not warrant one.

To your second point, yes that is the correlation I am making. Certain weapon mounted lights are wider than the trigger guard, causing the kydex to be wider to accommodate the light. This leads to a gap between the holster and the trigger guard, exposing the trigger. Please see pictures in the first post comparing two holsters for the same firearm.

Though I think the chances of something being introduced in this gap and discharging the firearm are slim, it is still plausible as seen by the news article.

 

[sjb323]

This is not just for the P320. Many Safariland retention holsters that accept one of the larger two-battery lights (Surefire x300, etc) have a gap near the trigger guard to allow the larger light to fit into the holster. On some holsters, the gap is large enough for an adult size finger to slide into the trigger guard of the holstered weapon. Not sure if Safariland fixed this issue, but this is how it was a few years ago.

Put a light on your gun. If you need it, it's there, and it's a hell of a lot easier to shoot using a weapon mounted light rather than juggling a handheld and trying to shoot one-handed/ Harris/ temple index/ whatever low light technique you want. Let's face it, with the exception of the next person who responds to this thread to disagree with what I just said, nobody actually practices that stuff anyways.

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

Light on my home defense/middle of the night gun. No light on edc. As noted above. Having a separate light is more flexible

Bonesurf makes a good point. The question was explicitly for EDC firearms.

For long-arms employed in home defense I have a weapon mounted light. Simultaneous, competent manipulation of a long-arm and a separate light is beyond my current abilities.

I do have a separate light on the night stand, along with electronic ear muffs. The latter simultaneously protect my hearing should things get loud, while greatly enhancing my ability to hear what's going on in the house. Remember, any flash of light at night is likely to be detected throughout the house. Whomever might be there will immediately know you are alert and likely carrying a weapon, increasing the odds you will subsequently be ambushed.

I agree night stand gun would be a better option for weapon mounted light, though I run mine with no light. I figure if I'm woken up at night, my eyes are already used to the dark so I have the advantage. The light could give me away, or be a target for intruders to aim.

That is a topic for another thread.

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

This is not just for the P320. Many Safariland retention holsters that accept one of the larger two-battery lights (Surefire x300, etc) have a gap near the trigger guard to allow the larger light to fit into the holster. On some holsters, the gap is large enough for an adult size finger to slide into the trigger guard of the holstered weapon. Not sure if Safariland fixed this issue, but this is how it was a few years ago.

Put a light on your gun. If you need it, it's there, and it's a hell of a lot easier to shoot using a weapon mounted light rather than juggling a handheld and trying to shoot one-handed/ Harris/ temple index/ whatever low light technique you want. Let's face it, with the exception of the next person who responds to this thread to disagree with what I just said, nobody actually practices that stuff anyways.

It's not just Safariland holsters that have this problem. I have kydex holsters from Vedder, Crossbreed, mom and pop shop brand, etc. and if the light is wider than the trigger guard, there is a substantial gap exposing the trigger.

I have the opinion of "I'd rather have it and not need it, versus need it and not have it." My 365 x macro has a light on it, and the 365xl grip has no light for days I need less chance of printing.

 

[sonofeugene]

So, did the relief in the holster for the light make it easier to gain access to the trigger?

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

So, did the relief in the holster for the light make it easier to gain access to the trigger?

Yes. The gap size depends on the combination of firearm, light, and holster. Some are better than others at maintaining low profile.

This was more of a PSA to check if others are comfortable in their EDC set up in case they haven't thought of this before.

 

[sonofeugene]

Thank you. That’s what I thought.

 

[TheNomad]

Instead of "Holstered Gun Discharges" it should be titled "Child discharges Officer's Holstered Gun". I suppose the kids were all crowded around touching everything on the belt?

 

[westsidearms]

Go shoot a night match of any type with your handheld light and see how much that sucks. I carry a Surefire Vampire and have a TLR6 on my Glock 27. I do not have a holster gap because I just carry in my waistband. Go shoot and use what you carry at night. You might quickly realize how inadequate your set up is. Give yourself an advantage. Get both hands on the gun and just keep carrying your spare light for spare light activities.

 

[vplaza96]

I use a TLR-1HL on my carry guns, XD9 4", XDM Elite 9mm 3.8", and M&P 2.0 10mm. I use a T1C MSP Flex Pro, a holster that has retention on the light.

No way a little one is getting a finger into that trigger. And the XD9 and XDM Elite have the trigger and grip safeties, so it would be really difficult for a child to get a finger in there, let alone to pull that trigger when the gun is holstered.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Light on my home defense/middle of the night gun. No light on edc. As noted above. Having a separate light is more flexible

I think that depends on your perspective. Having your off hand tied up holding, pointing, running a flashlight is far less flexible than having a free hand.

 

[bonesurf]

I think that depends on your perspective. Having your off hand tied up holding, pointing, running a flashlight is far less flexible than having a free hand.

Also kind of depends on your life in general. I kind of get that sure, having a weapon mounted light might be advantageous in certain scenarios. In my life anyways, I don’t spend a lot of time in dark alleys or anything like that. For most of my life having the light separate from my gun in Edc makes more sense. I suppose you can argue carry both, but I’m a small guy and I find the extra bulk Just not that comfortable. Admittedly for my “backpack” gun I do leave one on, but in that case, the bulk doesn’t really matter.

 

[sonofeugene]

I find that my Surefire lights work perfectly. You can turn them on and off with your trigger finger, thus removing your finger from the trigger itself. No danger of accidently shooting someone. And if you need to shoot, it’s a quick and easy transition back to the trigger.

All lights are a compromise in some way. And I believe the Surefire lights offer the best compromise.

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

Instead of "Holstered Gun Discharges" it should be titled "Child discharges Officer's Holstered Gun". I suppose the kids were all crowded around touching everything on the belt?

Yes they were all over the deputy.
Luckily no one was injured.
I figured if it happened to him, it could happen to others so I made a thread to *bring it to everyone's attention. The chances are slim, but it's plausible.

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

I use a TLR-1HL on my carry guns, XD9 4", XDM Elite 9mm 3.8", and M&P 2.0 10mm. I use a T1C MSP Flex Pro, a holster that has retention on the light.

No way a little one is getting a finger into that trigger. And the XD9 and XDM Elite have the trigger and grip safeties, so it would be really difficult for a child to get a finger in there, let alone to pull that trigger when the gun is holstered.

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Looks like a good set up! Despite having a large light, the holster does pretty well to keep the gap at a minimum. I'm sure carrying IWB and having a grip safety add more layers of protection as well.

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

Go shoot a night match of any type with your handheld light and see how much that sucks. I carry a Surefire Vampire and have a TLR6 on my Glock 27. I do not have a holster gap because I just carry in my waistband. Go shoot and use what you carry at night. You might quickly realize how inadequate your set up is. Give yourself an advantage. Get both hands on the gun and just keep carrying your spare light for spare light activities.

Same reason I have a TLR7 on my 365 macro. I'd rather have the advantage. It would be stressful enough having to shoot one handed.