UPS Box in Nevada/AZ for personal ordering

[Gromann]

With the recent parts and barrel restrictions on shipping to California, plus the ammo restrictions; I've considered getting a UPS Box out of state. A 2-3 hour drive isn't something that I mind doing and it seems that some barrel manufacturers have no way to order to CA right now. Some will straight up say "just order through your ffl" and most have no relationship with barrel manufacturers period to do any ordering with.

Was curious if there's some fringe aspect of the law that would make this legally gray or outright illegal.

 

[davethebull]

this sounds like a 2a lawyer question…

 

[Deleted member 34131]

I just know CA has to prove you did and there’s thousands if not hundreds of thousands of stuff that’s circulating without a paper trail.

 

[psun786]

With the recent parts and barrel restrictions on shipping to California, plus the ammo restrictions; I've considered getting a UPS Box out of state. A 2-3 hour drive isn't something that I mind doing and it seems that some barrel manufacturers have no way to order to CA right now. Some will straight up say "just order through your ffl" and most have no relationship with barrel manufacturers period to do any ordering with.

Was curious if there's some fringe aspect of the law that would make this legally gray or outright illegal.

These issues should be addressed with your own attorney—not just any attorney—rather than discussed on a public forum. Any statements you make here may be used as evidence in a legal proceeding.

 

[mcnaugcl]

I’m not a lawyer, but my understanding is there’s nothing in SB704 or AB1263 that says you can’t go out of state to buy items and bring them back. If you’re shipping to an out of state PO Box and physically going to the PO Box to retrieve items, then I don’t see any issue. You might have some retailers that will still block the purchase if your billing address is in CA.

I’ve seen it mentioned using a virtual mailbox with an out of state address where you can pick up there or forward to any address. I thought about trying it, but decided it’s not worth the potential risk.

 

[psun786]

I just know CA has to prove you did and there’s thousands if not hundreds of thousands of stuff that’s circulating without a paper trail.

Simply possessing bulk packs of ammunition, multiple barrels, and dozens of firearm parts while crossing state lines could potentially lead to investigation under a theory of constructive intent if you are stopped. It would not be difficult for investigators to attempt to establish mens rea by subpoenaing your online activity and to argue actus reus using evidence such as a UPS mailbox rental agreement or geolocation data from your phone or vehicle. In reality, I doubt the California DOJ would devote that level of resources to such a case. However, you should keep in mind that public forums may be monitored, and it would not be surprising if another user reported the activity.

 

[NaboombuLagoon]

You might have some retailers that will still block the purchase if your billing address is in CA.

This is a key part of the legislation, because it regulates conduct by the seller and not the buyer. It also doesn't limit the law to shipments into California, but includes shipments the seller reasonably believes will end up in California. So some sellers may see a California billing address with a shipping address in a neighboring state and decide it's not worth the risk.

 

[Scubabugdiver]

With gas prices these days, and the monthly charge for the PO Box, seems like you’d be jumping over dollars to save dimes. Just do it the right way and send it to or order through your favorite FFL. One who won’t charge you an arm and a leg for processing. And you’ll sleep better at night. I know I would.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Simply possessing bulk packs of ammunition, multiple barrels, and dozens of firearm parts while crossing state lines could potentially lead to investigation under a theory of constructive intent if you are stopped. It would not be difficult for investigators to attempt to establish mens rea by subpoenaing your online activity and to argue actus reus using evidence such as a UPS mailbox rental agreement or geolocation data from your phone or vehicle. In reality, I doubt the California DOJ would devote that level of resources to such a case. However, you should keep in mind that public forums may be monitored, and it would not be surprising if another user reported the activity.

Constructive intent/possession is a fed thing. Like for your AK-47, if you had FA bolt carrier, FA FCG, and then also a jig to show where to drill that third hole. M16 FA bolt carrier groups for AR/M4 dont count. But, I don’t think that would be covered by bulk packs of ammunition, multiple barrels, and dozens of firearm parts while crossing state lines; this would be more of a state level matter (a California thing), not a federal one.

If I remember correctly, California, at a state level, does not have constructive possession or constructive intent. So, if you had a spare pistol grip near your featureless set up, or if gun safe has a mix of fixed mag set ups and featureless home defense rigs, but there is also freedom week mags within the same safe; it doesn’t mean constructive intent/possession for you fixed mag set ups, and if I remember correctly there isn’t an actual specific charge or PC for constructive intent/possession of building a firearm or an AW.

 

[NaboombuLagoon]

Simply possessing bulk packs of ammunition, multiple barrels, and dozens of firearm parts while crossing state lines could potentially lead to investigation under a theory of constructive intent if you are stopped. It would not be difficult for investigators to attempt to establish mens rea by subpoenaing your online activity and to argue actus reus using evidence such as a UPS mailbox rental agreement or geolocation data from your phone or vehicle. In reality, I doubt the California DOJ would devote that level of resources to such a case. However, you should keep in mind that public forums may be monitored, and it would not be surprising if another user reported the activity.

Absent an FFL03/COE, importing any ammunition into California without it going through an FFL is a crime.

 

[mjm2k3]

I didn't read all of scared "must comply" responses, so this may have been mentioned, but there are services like virtualaddress.com....

 

[Eatdirt]

And let's throw in the mix .
Buying items with a Ca. Resident credit card ....
" Sir , Our records show from your credit card you live in California "

 

[Hit Factor]

These issues should be addressed with your own attorney—not just any attorney—rather than discussed on a public forum. Any statements you make here may be used as evidence in a legal proceeding.

He’s merely asking for the sake of argument. He just forgot to write the word “hypothetically” in his post. But thankfully, the Democrats running this state have not yet tried to use our tax money to fund a “Thought Police” force. Although the way things are headed in this state, George Orwell may have been a lot more prescient than anyone gave him credit for when he wrote “1984” . . .

 

[treelogger]

Constructive intent/possession is a fed thing. ...
If I remember correctly, California, at a state level, does not have constructive possession or constructive intent. ...

Yes and no.

Federal gun law explicitly has constructive possession written into it. But from that you can not conclude that California law does NOT have it, just because it is not explicitly in black letter law. The most important aspect is that the attempt to commit a crime, even if not fully executed, is often punished the same way the crime itself is. For example, some combination of intent to commit a crime, preparing to do so, and obtaining the necessary tools or parts of it, is in and of itself a crime. For a good example, see the often-discussed Nguyen case.

 

[homeslice]

my LGS charges $25 for transferring an online barrel + any goodies in the same box.

How much is gas + post box + time worth to you?

 

[Deleted member 16735]

my LGS charges $25 for transferring an online barrel + any goodies in the same box.

How much is gas + post box + time worth to you?

the one caveat is that many manufacturers and retailers have stopped shipping to CA altogether even to an FFL. But many retailers will ship to us so in most cases you can find someone to ship even if it's not manufacturer direct.