SHTF Rifle build?

[markwise]

Honestly man, after many years thinking, use what you think is badass and fun or cool to use. Doesn’t have to be practical, or light or heavy, just train with it and use it.

If SHTF odds are you and I are gonna die, be starvation, dehydration, sepsis, or whatever mishap. Learn survival skills and get in shape rather the perfect gun build. You very well may end up just using whatever gun you can scavenge anyways.

Lets learn from the US and Middle East wars. A bunch of dudes with no training with AKs and homemade bombs were able to resist the US military. Same can be said about Vietnam. Exhibit A why the perfect gun won’t save you that even the military may have, use what you got, whatever the hell you like. I personally vote use what you think is badass and fun. But still, just like in the Middle East or Vietnam, you may be blown away by a kid with a glock who is scared or by a negligent discharge. Bullets are bullets, the shape of your bullet shooter won’t make it any different cause dead is dead.

SHTF is end of the world, the end quite literally means: The End. You don’t survive the end haha, so if you are probably gonna die, well, use a cool ass gun to die with

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Honestly man, after many years thinking, use what you think is badass and fun or cool to use. Doesn’t have to be practical, or light or heavy, just train with it and use it.

If SHTF odds are you and I are gonna die, be starvation, dehydration, sepsis, or whatever mishap. Learn survival skills and get in shape rather the perfect gun build. You very well may end up just using whatever gun you can scavenge anyways.

Lets learn from the US and Middle East wars. A bunch of dudes with no training with AKs and homemade bombs were able to resist the US military. Same can be said about Vietnam. Exhibit A why the perfect gun won’t save you that even the military may have, use what you got, whatever the hell you like. I personally vote use what you think is badass and fun. But still, just like in the Middle East or Vietnam, you may be blown away by a kid with a glock who is scared or by a negligent discharge. Bullets are bullets, the shape of your bullet shooter won’t make it any different cause dead is dead.

SHTF is end of the world, the end quite literally means: The End. You don’t survive the end haha, so if you are probably gonna die, well, use a cool ass gun to die with

It's "SHTF" and not "The End" or apocolypse. And while I find a 50BMG or lever action fun, they aren't the best option for me to keep my family safe.

Same reason I train defensive and CCW specific context beyond the mandatory 16 hours: I hope and expect to never need it but at least I have some level of preparedness.

Here's a more narrow context on what I mean by "SHTF": https://caguns.net/threads/shtf-rifle-build.28056/post-172017

 

[markwise]

It's "SHTF" and not "The End" or apocolypse. And while I find a 50BMG or lever action fun, they aren't the best option for me to keep my family safe.

Same reason I train defensive and CCW specific context beyond the mandatory 16 hours: I hope and expect to never need it but at least I have some level of preparedness.

Here's a more narrow context on what I mean by "SHTF": https://caguns.net/threads/shtf-rifle-build.28056/post-172017

Ngl, I don’t think anyone would be having fun with a 50 BMG, those are hella heavy but there might be an odd ball

Yeah, my point is, whatever the situation be war, infrastructure collapse, etc, doesn’t matter the gun, matters more so the fitness and training. Any basic AR will do fine really.

Priority 1: Fitness
Pirority 2: Survival knowledge and training
Priority 3: Supplies (Equipment, Food, Water, Gas, Etc)
Priority 4: Maybe the ideal gun, whatever the case, the ideal gun is bottom of the list.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I’d sell my 30-30 lever action last because I’ve hunted with it and trained extensively with it. I enjoy shooting it and I would really miss it.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Ngl, I don’t think anyone would be having fun with a 50 BMG, those are hella heavy but there might be an odd ball

Exactly! They're fun to shoot but not necessarily "fun" nor practical suited for such a scenario.

Yeah, my point is, whatever the situation be war, infrastructure collapse, etc, doesn’t matter the gun, matters more so the fitness and training. Any basic AR will do fine really.

Initially, I thought well. But after a lot of training I learned certain platforms, parts and configurations can have major issues, reliability being the biggest. Others are so boutique that you can't just throw in another basic BCG or bolt without sacrificing reliability.

Priority 1: Fitness
Pirority 2: Survival knowledge and training
Priority 3: Supplies (Equipment, Food, Water, Gas, Etc)
Priority 4: Maybe the ideal gun, whatever the case, the ideal gun is bottom of the list.

To each their own but defensive preparedness - including things like deterrance, delaying, denial... - are very high on my list.

This thread is largely focusing on one aspect of that. There could absolutely be wider discussions on SHTF specific fitness, training, resources...

One other thing is that some folks have physical limitations, or perhaps you'd have to bugout with small children...that reliable rifle might have to make up for other disadvantages.

 

[EliteArmoryCV]

So I ran a red dot and 3x magnifier at Bay Area Rifle Championship last month. Romeo 8T AMR set. The reticle automatically changes when you drop the magnifier in.

I was able to hit 6" steel on the 100yd and 200yd stages, but it was difficult and slow - also because I haven't trained out to those distances much.

All the top competitors ran the LPVO at 1x instead of the red dot for all the stages 25yds and under. Vortex Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x24mm with second focal plane is supposed to be the best IIRC

On the other hand I'm also thinking of the Aimpoint Comp M4s Red Dot because it runs on a single AA battery or an etched prism optic. But I'm going to also get a Vortex and train with it.

I shot BARC with the exact gun that I described in my post and I think I did pretty okay! If I had a competition-specific upper I’d toss a Razor on there but I try and use my non-gamer stuff in matches to see where I stack up. The only time I used magnification was on the 200yd stage, and a careless Mike on the right paper array tanked my score - but I’ll take a partial HF over a zero all day. I had maybe one makeup on each 100yd steel array.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I shot BARC with the exact gun that I described in my post and I think I did pretty okay! If I had a competition-specific upper I’d toss a Razor on there but I try and use my non-gamer stuff in matches to see where I stack up. The only time I used magnification was on the 200yd stage, and a careless Mike on the right paper array tanked my score - but I’ll take a partial HF over a zero all day. I had maybe one makeup on each 100yd steel array.

I had a no shoot on the right array at the 200yd. I think my HF was like 0.25

And I also think using the magnifier actually got in the way on 100yd. Somehow I thought I'd get hit's faster and still needed multiple make ups on both small steel plates.

I'm going to try some CQB with a Razor and see how it goes. The second focal plane eye box is supposed to make acquisition more like a red dot. At the same time, I'm not sure it has the ruggedness.

 

[gunsgunsguns]

Nope! 100% human. If I post anything AI generated I disclaim it very clearly.
I used em dashes long before the LLM craze. And you can tell because I often use them incorrectly or when unnecessary.

Ok. Fair enough. The dashes and italics and bold font really set my radar off. Did they train the AI on your posts?

 

[C1PHR3]

This is CA, only acceptable answer is Anderson/Aero/PSA lower, bcm blem upper. It’s the California special

 

[john_marsten_1873]

This is CA, only acceptable answer is Anderson/Aero/PSA lower, bcm blem upper. It’s the California special

I just built 2 rifles with none of those:

1. Bugout rifle - Noveske N4 Chainsaw lower + VLTOR MUR upper - I started with an LMT MARS-L lower but the reinforced walls of the MUR upper weren't compatible with the ambi-controls
2. New training rifle - basically just built a Geissele URG-I clone from scratch thanks to some deep discounts from Primary Arms this summer

The only BCM I have are some spare bolts

 

[C1PHR3]

I just built 2 rifles with none of those:

1. Bugout rifle - Noveske N4 Chainsaw lower + VLTOR MUR upper - I started with an LMT MARS-L lower but the reinforced walls of the MUR upper weren't compatible with the ambi-controls
2. New training rifle - basically just built a Geissele URG-I clone from scratch thanks to some deep discounts from Primary Arms this summer

The only BCM I have are some spare bolts

You haven’t met the 2A lord and savior, Just Asgood, yet

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Ok. Fair enough. The dashes and italics and bold font really set my radar off. Did they train the AI on your posts?

The first thing is that I tend to be long-winded in my responses so I try to use highlighting and formatting to emphasize the most important stuff

The other thing is that ChatGPT, Claude, basically all the frontier AI models were trained (and built) on a lot technical documentation written by software engineers

Most of this documentation is written and stored on a platform called Github which uses a special formatting (a "markup" language) called Markdown which allows you to add attributes to text by wrapping it in symbols.

If you've ever copied an AI response and when pasting saw a bunch of weird symbols, that's raw Markdown.

But most social media sites don't have (or don't expose) a Markdown renderer which would allow you to see all bolding, highlighting...so you just get the raw symbols

@ikeo1 built this site with both a Markdown renderer and WYSIWYG editor so I can just let it flow naturally. His own fault.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

You haven’t met the 2A lord and savior, Just Asgood, yet

That's fair! I basically left Aero alone because it was so damn hard to find parts (or proprietary tools) in stock.

 

[ikeo1]

ikeo1 built this site with both a Markdown renderer and WYSIWYG editor so I can just let it flow naturally. His own fault.

I give people options!

 

[gunsgunsguns]

The first thing is that I tend to be long-winded in my responses so I try to use highlighting and formatting to emphasize the most important stuff

The other thing is that ChatGPT, Claude, basically all the frontier AI models were trained (and built) on a lot technical documentation written by software engineers

Most of this documentation is written and stored on a platform called Github which uses a special formatting (a "markup" language) called Markdown which allows you to add attributes to text by wrapping it in symbols.

If you've ever copied an AI response and when pasting saw a bunch of weird symbols, that's raw Markdown.

But most social media sites don't have (or don't expose) a Markdown renderer which would allow you to see all bolding, highlighting...so you just get the raw symbols

@ikeo1 built this site with both a Markdown renderer and WYSIWYG editor so I can just let it flow naturally. His own fault.

Haha. I work in SaaS and have done some front end stuff so I get it. I’m sure some llms have scraped your stuff at some point. Very closely resembles the conversations I’ve had with Claude et al about guns.

 

[ikeo1]

I just built 2 rifles with none of those:

1. Bugout rifle - Noveske N4 Chainsaw lower + VLTOR MUR upper - I started with an LMT MARS-L lower but the reinforced walls of the MUR upper weren't compatible with the ambi-controls
2. New training rifle - basically just built a Geissele URG-I clone from scratch thanks to some deep discounts from Primary Arms this summer

The only BCM I have are some spare bolts

This is just the basics though man… though I’ve gotten lazy lately

 

[Legasov]

First of all, who tf invited Elite Armory to the party? Kinda weird seeing you guys squat in the peasant threads. Having trouble moving remans? Just talking dont take it personal. Anyways...

Now about 99% of you who explained in detail your SHTF set up, wouldnt be able to huck the ammo to keep it fed. Unless you have the wifey following you with the 4x4 jeep loaded with ammo cans in the back.

22LR for days. 10/22 takedown backpacker special with a satchel pouch of a couple 1k rounds of ammo will do you well. Maybe a 10mm glock or 1911 with two, three mags, for anything that gets in your face. Other than that, assume you will be mobile unable to stay put in one location for a prolonged amount of time.

 

[ct203]

Ideally a 14.5 with a red dot and magnifier, flash hider, lam, and thermal clip on.

 

[EliteArmoryCV]

First of all, who tf invited Elite Armory to the party? Kinda weird seeing you guys squat in the peasant threads. Having trouble moving remans? Just talking dont take it personal. Anyways...

Now about 99% of you who explained in detail your SHTF set up, wouldnt be able to huck the ammo to keep it fed. Unless you have the wifey following you with the 4x4 jeep loaded with ammo cans in the back.

22LR for days. 10/22 takedown backpacker special with a satchel pouch of a couple 1k rounds of ammo will do you well. Maybe a 10mm glock or 1911 with two, three mags, for anything that gets in your face. Other than that, assume you will be mobile unable to stay put in one location for a prolonged amount of time.

We’re having trouble keeping them on the shelves, especially the 9! No crowds of customers lining up to buy bags means I get a few minutes every day to manage our social media channels.

.22LR is great but in the event of a true worst case scenario, I’m not betting my life on a rimfire and some handguns. Without supply lines, the long gun remains a defensive tool. I’m not expecting - or wanting - to get into situations where I’d be going through all the mags on my person, but if it came to that, I’d rather have 5.56

 

[john_marsten_1873]

First of all, who tf invited Elite Armory to the party? Kinda weird seeing you guys squat in the peasant threads. Having trouble moving remans? Just talking dont take it personal. Anyways...

Now about 99% of you who explained in detail your SHTF set up, wouldnt be able to huck the ammo to keep it fed. Unless you have the wifey following you with the 4x4 jeep loaded with ammo cans in the back.

22LR for days. 10/22 takedown backpacker special with a satchel pouch of a couple 1k rounds of ammo will do you well. Maybe a 10mm glock or 1911 with two, three mags, for anything that gets in your face. Other than that, assume you will be mobile unable to stay put in one location for a prolonged amount of time.

That Elite Armory reman is good stuff! I've had more malfunctions with factory ammo than I've had with Elite Armory remans.

You're using .22LR with 5.56 coming your way...good luck!

Also, .22LR and 10mm are going to be difficult to find when you're out there in the "wild".