Shipping Rifles from California to Out-of-State Buyers

[AR15barrels]

From what CADOJ says on one of my conditions for a AW permit is I must facilitate shipping of Registered AW's to out of state FFL's even though I do not offer outgoing shipping services as it is not legal (according to them) to ship a Registered AW's


I've been told its fine if the registrant want to drive the firearm out of state but not ship it.
IANAL and have never seen a specific code that allow it.

In the case of 2 piece guns like ARs; the DOJ says they are no longer an assault weapon when the receivers are separated.
The law that states that does not specify it only for non-registered AW's so it ought to apply equally to actual registered AW's.

 

[BONECUTR]

In the case of 2 piece guns like ARs; they are no longer an assault weapon when the receivers are separated.

They would argue a Registered AW is still a registered AW even if its just a lower.

 

[RickD427]

They would argue a Registered AW is still a registered AW even if its just a lower.

It would be very hard for them to make that argument, especially since they drafted this regulation (quoted from 11CCR5471(hh)):

“Semiautomatic” means a firearm functionally able to fire a single cartridge, eject the empty case, and reload the chamber each time the trigger is pulled and released. Further, certain necessary mechanical parts that will allow a firearm to function in a semiautomatic nature must be present for a weapon to be deemed semiautomatic. A weapon clearly designed to be semiautomatic but lacking a firing pin, bolt carrier, gas tube, or some other crucial part of the firearm is not semiautomatic for purposes of Penal Code sections 30515, 30600, 30605(a), and 30900.
(1) A mechanically whole semiautomatic firearm merely lacking ammunition and a proper magazine is a semiautomatic firearm.
(2) A mechanically whole semiautomatic firearm disabled by a gun lock or other firearm safety device is a semiautomatic firearm. (All necessary parts are present, once the gun lock or firearm safety device is removed, and weapon can be loaded with a magazine and proper ammunition.)
(3) With regards to an AR-15 style firearm, if a complete upper receiver and a complete lower receiver are completely detached from one another, but still in the possession or under the custody or control of the same person, the firearm is not a semiautomatic firearm.
(4) A stripped AR-15 lower receiver, when sold at a California gun store, is not a semiautomatic firearm. (The action type, among other things, is undetermined.)"

But please note that provision in subparagraph (3) that removes a weapon from being a "semi-automatic: when the upper and lower receivers are separated, only works to prevent an "evil by feature" Assault Weapon from being an Assault Weapon, since being a semi-automatic is an element of an "evil by feature" AW.

Separating the upper and lower doesn't give the same protection to an "evil by name" AW since the name still remains.

 

[RickD427]

From what CADOJ says on one of my conditions for a AW permit is I must facilitate shipping of Registered AW's to out of state FFL's even though I do not offer outgoing shipping services as it is not legal (according to them) to ship a Registered AW's


I've been told its fine if the registrant want to drive the firearm out of state but not ship it.
IANAL and have never seen a specific code that allow it.

It's not fine to drive a Registered Assault Weapon out of the state.

Persons transporting RAWs can only transport them destinations provided for in Penal Code section 30945. The "stateline" is not an authorized destination.

 

[BONECUTR]

It's not fine to drive a Registered Assault Weapon out of the state.

Persons transporting RAWs can only transport them destinations provided for in Penal Code section 30945. The "stateline" is not an authorized destination.

Not stateline but out of state FFL should be fine.
(g) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this section, or to any licensed gun dealer, for servicing or repair pursuant to Section 31050, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Sections 16850 and 25610.

 

[BONECUTR]

It would be very hard for them to make that argument, especially since they drafted this regulation (quoted from 11CCR5471(hh)):

5471 were all terms to define what they would allow people to register though and they wouldn't let people register non complete firearms.
The user could seperate the lower (if not banned by name) and deregister it as an AW before selling out of the state.

 

[ar15robert]

I had an sb23 raw and if I were to sell it there were 2 choices drive it out of state or use an ffl with an assault weapons permit last I heard there were only 2.

Best option hope one is close or drive it out of state. Not sure what other ffl will do being it coming from ca and not via an approved ffl.

 

[BONECUTR]

Folks seem determined to overcomplicate things. You can lawfully sell your RAW out of state as you would any other firearm. You do not need to use a California FFL to sell out state. You just need to follow federal guidelines and the guidelines of the recipients state.

13) What should I do if I don’t want to keep my assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle?

If you have a registered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle, you have the following options:


3. Lawfully remove the weapon from this state

The penal code and CCR do not give exemptions to just ship yourself that I see:

PC 30945, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions:

(a) At that person’s residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner’s express permission.

(b) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.

(c) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.

(d) While on the premises of a shooting club that is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.

(e) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.

(f) While on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 30510, 30515, 30520, or 30530, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.

(g) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this section, or to any licensed gun dealer, for servicing or repair pursuant to Section 31050, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Sections 16850 and 25610.

16850 and 25610 are locked containers, unloaded, or locked truck, ect

 

[AR15barrels]

They would argue a Registered AW is still a registered AW even if its just a lower.

The same way we should be able to argue that a registered AW with it's bullet button removed is still the same registered assault weapon...

 

[miloann2002]

I am the original owner of several rifles located in the San Gabriel Valley, California. A few were registered with the California DOJ as assault weapons in 1999.

As I prepare for retirement, I am exploring lawful options for selling my remaining rifles to out-of-state buyers through GunBroker. In 2022, I completed several such sales by arranging shipment to the buyers’ licensed out-of-state FFLs.

Since then, I understand that UPS have changed their firearm-shipping policies. I would like to learn the current legal and practical process for completing these transactions in full compliance with California and federal law.

Can anyone recommend an experienced FFL in the San Gabriel Valley or greater Los Angeles area who can handle the shipment to an out-of-state buyer’s FFL for a reasonable fee?

I would especially appreciate recent, firsthand experience involving a firearm registered as an assault weapon in California. I am seeking procedural guidance only and will confirm all requirements with the appropriate FFL and government agencies before proceeding.

Thanks for the helpful discussion and input. I’ve learned a lot here.

My question comes down to this: If I use a shipping label provided by ShipMyGuns.com, can I drop off the package at a regular UPS Store or USPS location? Will they accept it?

If anyone has had a similar experience recently, I would appreciate hearing about it.

 

[BobGBA]

I see you are a FFL but how is that true? I have gotten prepaid labels for UPS before, most recently Remington for warranty work

Here's how I think it works...

When you use ShipMyGun, the shipping label is created under Bud's Guns (FFL) and you are shipping it as an agent of Buds.
The same concept applies when you ship a gun using a label provided by the firearm manufacturer for warranty or repair or service.
I suppose if you needed some custom work done and the Gunsmith/Shop (FFL) sends you a shipping label, that's how you could get custom work done.

It seems that UPS and Fedex don't want non FFLs to ship guns and they have put policies in place to try and prevent that.

 

[kemasa]

Thanks for the info.

I visited USPS and was told that they would not accept firearms or ammunition for shipment. I also visited the former UPS Customer Center in Baldwin Park and confirmed that it is permanently closed. UPS now directs customers to UPS Store locations.

I shipped rifles successfully in 2022, but the available shipping options and carrier policies appear to have changed significantly since then.

The thing is with shippers is that that quite often tend to lie. Ammo is an issue, as are handguns for non-FFLs, but long guns are not an issue, so you might need to escalate the issue in order to get them to come back to reality.

Yes, the polices have changed. I forget which, but one requires FFL to register in order to ship firearms.

 

[kemasa]

I see you are a FFL but how is that true? I have gotten prepaid labels for UPS before, most recently Remington for warranty work

How is that true? They change their policies, that's how. The question with pre-paid labels is whether they might have an issue regardless of who created the label, but I don't know. It has just made things harder with a lot more unknowns.

 

[kemasa]

Thanks for the info.

I visited USPS and was told that they would not accept firearms or ammunition for shipment. I also visited the former UPS Customer Center in Baldwin Park and confirmed that it is permanently closed. UPS now directs customers to UPS Store locations.

I shipped rifles successfully in 2022, but the available shipping options and carrier policies appear to have changed significantly since then.

Oh, you can't ship firearms by means of the UPS Store as it isn't UPS, it is a separate company. If you use a pre-paid label and they lose it, you are SOL. The UPS rules also state that.

 

[1911-CV]

Oh, you can't ship firearms by means of the UPS Store as it isn't UPS, it is a separate company. If you use a pre-paid label and they lose it, you are SOL. The UPS rules also state that.

Please cite a UPS rule that says a UPS Store (a franchisee) gives UPS any less responsibility for package loss than going to a UPS center.

 

[kemasa]

In the case of 2 piece guns like ARs; the DOJ says they are no longer an assault weapon when the receivers are separated.
The law that states that does not specify it only for non-registered AW's so it ought to apply equally to actual registered AW's.

Once registered, the firearm is still considered a so-called a-salt weapon by CA, so taking it apart makes no difference. For non-registered, taking it apart makes it no longer considered a so-called a-salt weapon.

 

[kemasa]

Please cite a UPS rule that says a UPS Store (a franchisee) gives UPS any less responsibility for package loss than going to a UPS center.

It isn't UPS, it is both a separate company AND typically a franchise, so why would you think that another company somehow becomes resposible? It can change if they generate the label since then there is a contract with UPS. I have dealt with this due to the UPS Store refusing to print a receipt as it "costs money" and failed to scan it in.

Site a UPS policy or rule which states that UPS will be responsible for packages that they didn't receive from a separate company which had nothing to do with the shipping label.

Also, you need to be able to prove that you gave it to the UPS store.

A search:

UPS is generally not held responsible if an independently owned The UPS Store franchise loses your package before it is officially scanned into the corporate UPS shipping network. Because The UPS Store locations are separate legal entities operating as franchises, liability depends entirely on where the package disappeared.
Here is how responsibility breaks down based on the lifecycle of your package:

1. Lost by the Store (Before UPS Pickup)
If you dropped off the package, received a drop-off receipt, but the store employees misplaced it or it was stolen from the retail floor before the UPS driver picked it up, The UPS Store franchise is responsible.

• The Catch: Corporate UPS (United Parcel Service, Inc.) will likely deny a corporate claim because they never took physical possession of the item.
  
  
• Your Recourse: You must handle the dispute directly with the management or owner of that specific franchise location to seek reimbursement.

 

[1911-CV]

You must deal with a different version of a UPS store than is present locally. My local UPS store prints a UPS receipt and hands it to me every time. Valid contract with UPS...

 

[kemasa]

No, you cannot ship firearms, ammunition, or serialized firearm parts through The UPS Store.
While they share a similar name, The UPS Store locations are independently owned franchises and are entirely separate from UPS customer centers (hubs). The UPS Store is contractually prohibited from accepting, handling, or processing any firearm shipments.
If you need to ship a firearm through UPS, you must adhere to the following carrier rules:

Strict UPS Firearm Policies

• Contracted FFLs Only: UPS policy states that they only accept firearm shipments from licensed importers, manufacturers, dealers, or collectors (FFLs) who have an approved, pre-existing shipping contract directly with UPS. Private individuals can no longer ship firearms independently via UPS.
  
  
• No Drop-Offs: Even if you have a pre-printed label from an authorized dealer, you cannot drop the package off at a The UPS Store, a UPS Drop Box, or a third-party retailer.
  
  
• Approved Transports: Eligible contract shipments must be picked up via a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account or brought directly to the customer counter at an official UPS Customer Center (hub).

 

[AR15barrels]

Once registered, the firearm is still considered a so-called a-salt weapon by CA, so taking it apart makes no difference.

So how can removing a bullet button from a registered assault weapon make a different unregistered assault weapon if the full disassembly of that very same registered assault weapon into a stripped receiver does not keep it from being the very same assault weapon it is registered as?

They can't have it both ways.
It has to be either one way or the other way.
It can't be both.