Revisiting the sighting system on my gucci lego rifle - fixed sights vs scope vs micro-prism vs red dot vs etc. ???

[Smittty]

Deciding on the sighting system for my kodiak brown rifle has to be the toughed decision in my adult life!

My eyes can't see a red dot clearly so I've been experimenting with all the practical options:
- fixed iron sights - decided to skip these for this rifle, for now!
- holosun ARO gold circle dot - tried it and cannot see the dot clearly even though reviews say this color is supposed to be better, returned. I did love how light and compact it was!
- folding back up sights - ordered, undecided if I even want them but I'll see how they look.
- mil-dot scope - fixed 10x with qd mount - ordered
- 1x prism optic with qd mount - ordered

The Holosun ARO was really nice, and I wish my eyes could see the dot more clearly because I really like this thing. If you have good eyesight, this is a super nice little optic!

Reticle is 2 moa dot with 65 moa circle.


Updates as the stuff arrives!

 

[Smittty]

Saved for micro-prism optic with qd mount.

Tried the Zerotech 1x prism and as nice as it is the reticle on this was doesn't focus the dot and the circle together, and after one of them is in focus I need to refocus when it's illuminated. Clearly a defect so I have to send it back.

My observation of the un-illuminated reticle is, I didn't like it and if that was what I was stuck with I'd rather us iron sights.

The out-of-focus dot/circle gave me worse visual sighting ability than with the holosun ARO on low power. If I had to choose between the two compromises, I'd choose the Holosun.

On this one the dot is 3moa and circle is 110 moa. It's very similar to the holosun circle dot and they are sized differently but from looking thru I would not be able to judge taht they are different sizes, the circles and dots that is.

Between gold and red illumination, my preference is for the gold, by a lot!

My sense with the Holosun 65 moa circle is that it would approximate the height of the average american male standing 5' 9" at 100 yards.

The 110 moa circle at 100yards is approx 9 1/2 ft which doesn't have logic to me, but it might come to me so I shouldn't criticize it yet.



The QG mount I got is the scalarworks clone and didn't use it because I'm sending this prism back. In the hands it looks and feels really nice and locks onto the rail securely. If I didn't know it was a clone I'd have no way of knowing because it looks and feels like it could be the real thing.

Amazon.com

 

[Smittty]

saved for folding back-up sights

 

[Smittty]

saved for mil-dot scope + qd mount

 

[weaverftw]

Good luck; interested to see your thoughts as I just built an AR and put a cheap amazon 1-6x that is really like a 1-3x on it and it sucks lol

 

[Smittty]

Good luck; interested to see your thoughts as I just built an AR and put a cheap amazon 1-6x that is really like a 1-3x on it and it sucks lol

If the optic sucks send it back!

There's no point in having a scope if you can't get the full experience from it.

If you have good eyes, I strongly recommend the Holosun ARO with yellow circle dot that I have to send back because my eyes have astigmatism. Really wanted it to work which is too bad for me because it's seriously nice, clear glass, small, ultralight, sweet little thing.

This gun is toy for me and likely the last one I buy.

Today, we can't even order a plastic pistol grip without having to verify our shipping address with an ID in order to complete the order. Really, our government wants to do this to us!

Anyway, I'd like to set it up for some versatility to use however I might want in the future, which is the reason for the QD mounts. Heck, I may keep all the options and change it up for however I feel for that range trip.

 

[bryanwm18]

I have a bad astigmatism and don't see rifle red dots well, especially since most are small like 2 moa
Primary Arms SLX 1x prisms have been the best for me (have a magnifier for a couple of set ups)
LPVO also works, but not really what I need, but seems your use case is different
Hope you find what works best for you!

 

[Smittty]

I have a bad astigmatism and don't see rifle red dots well, especially since most are small like 2 moa
Primary Arms SLX 1x prisms have been the best for me (have a magnifier for a couple of set ups)
LPVO also works, but not really what I need, but seems your use case is different
Hope you find what works best for you!

I haven't tried Primary Arms prisms yet, but I just tried the ZeroTech 1x and the dot and circle were not focused together so I have to send it back!

 

[ReaperCustom45]

I've got a pretty bad astigmatism as well, so red dots are pretty hit or miss. My main AR uses a Sig Tango 1-6, which has a nice circle reticle that my eye picks up pretty well. I usually don't use the illumination, but if I do, using it on a lower level usually shows up just fine for me. I've found thicker etched reticles work well for me, anything too fine just disappears for me, and red dots usually burst too much to be usable.

 

[bryanwm18]

I haven't tried Primary Arms prisms yet, but I just tried the ZeroTech 1x and the dot and circle were not focused together so I have to send it back!

I haven't heard of those, but the PA can can be easily found and are often on sale through various sites or gafs
Ive tried various versions and they seem to have the best mix of quality to price
And the prism has a much better field of view than an LPVO which is more important for my uses
If I was going out to distance more, then I'd run more LPVOs

 

[Smittty]

I haven't heard of those, but the PA can can be easily found and are often on sale through various sites or gafs
Ive tried various versions and they seem to have the best mix of quality to price
And the prism has a much better field of view than an LPVO which is more important for my uses
If I was going out to distance more, then I'd run more LPVOs

For the scope, I ordered a used bushnell 3200 tactical 10x42 mil-dot. I owned the identical scope in the past and remember liking it. I figured it would be just right for me now.

I'm letting this rifle evolve into whatever this experiment wants it to be! I think it could be neat to have it all, folding sights, qd micro-optic and qd scope.

 

[Smittty]

Why did I choose the fixed 10x with mil-dot scope? Because that's what I learned on, along with the mil-dot master.

For anyone that doesn't know what that is, here's a youtube video on it. It's old tech but still valid. This is also why I like mil-dots instead of moa or a bdc reticle - it's more fun.

 

[AR15barrels]

The out-of-focus dot/circle gave me worse visual sighting ability than with the holosun ARO on low power.
My sense with the Holosun 65 moa circle is that it would approximate the height of the average american male standing 5' 9" at 100 yards.
The 110 moa circle at 100yards is approx 9 1/2 ft which doesn't have logic to me, but it might come to me so I shouldn't criticize it yet.
View attachment 182641View attachment 182642

The purpose of the 110moa or 65moa circles are NOT for aiming.
Those circles are there to show you which way you are off-target when you can not find the dot.
The circle is often so large that it's not visible through the optic unless you are off-axis.
You only see the circle when you get much closer to the optic.

The circles are for use on pistols where you bring the pistol up quickly and might not be aligned well enough to see the dot.
When you see the bottom half of the large circle, that's telling you to raise your point of aim.
If you see the left side of the circle, then you need to aim more to the right to find the dot.
The large circle does not need to be in sharp focus to do it's job.

When used on a rifle, you have the stock aligning the dot and you will naturally come up on target with your face on the stock and will see the dot.
The large circles are generally not useful on rifles used with stocks because you don't have the misalignment issues of pistols.

 

[Jimi Jah]

For older shooters or limited eyesite I found a variable scope to work best. A 1x10 is ideal.

You can't focus on both the reticle and target with a red dot or irons. You can with a scope on 1x. Zoom in and 100 yards is easy.

The human eye can't do that. Measure twice, cut once. Buy quality glass, it's worth it.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

All my ARs now sport LVPOs. At 63 with astigmatism its hard to see clearly the red dots (even green). With the LVPO I can turn off the brightness and still have the etched reticle which I like.

 

[Smittty]

The purpose of the 110moa or 65moa circles are NOT for aiming.
Those circles are there to show you which way you are off-target when you can not find the dot.
The circle is often so large that it's not visible through the optic unless you are off-axis.
You only see the circle when you get much closer to the optic.

The circles are for use on pistols where you bring the pistol up quickly and might not be aligned well enough to see the dot.
When you see the bottom half of the large circle, that's telling you to raise your point of aim.
If you see the left side of the circle, then you need to aim more to the right to find the dot.
The large circle does not need to be in sharp focus to do it's job.

When used on a rifle, you have the stock aligning the dot and you will naturally come up on target with your face on the stock and will see the dot.
The large circles are generally not useful on rifles used with stocks because you don't have the misalignment issues of pistols.

Did notice the red center dot disappear on some background colors and you're right the circle helped a lot in those cases. There's a version of the new holosun ARO optic with only a dot, no circle, I would avoid that one.

I reordered the holosun ARO (circle-dot reticle) in place of the zerotech. I have astigmatism but I still like that optic enough to try it again. The gold illumination still has a fuzzy dot and if it's too inaccurate for my eyes, I guess one of my kids will get a new optic!

The weight of a LVPO is just not something I want on my rifle. I'll have QD mounts for any optic I plan to use on the rifle, but it won't live on it!

 

[Smittty]

I guess you can't edit posts beyond a certain time!

Here are the flip-up sights that I settled on, UTG Pro - made in USA.

$40 for the rear, $30 for the front.



I owned multiple sights over the years, high-end, low-end, etc, and these are definitely the new standard for me for those that fold. The plastic magpul's seem to be the standard for a lot of guys but their rear doesn't allow as crisp a sight picture as this one and these are better value. I'm impressed with these!

 

[Jimi Jah]

When I ran irons on an AR I used those round site posts with the thin crosshairs inside. Much better than those thick square posts.

 

[Smittty]

When I ran irons on an AR I used those round site posts with the thin crosshairs inside. Much better than those thick square posts.

Ya, that’s a nice set up.

Some front sights have an adjustable post inside a round hood and when the post is raised or lowered so it’s not centered in that hood it messes with the sight picture.

But a target globe front sight with thin crosshair is excellent!

I’m used to post front sights with rear aperture sight, and if lighting is good, I can often group was well as with a scope at 100 yds.

 

[Smittty]

Seems like I'm talking to myself but I'm sure someone will benefit from my experience!

Here's the wrap-up after what seems like a lot of wasted time to land on what I settle on.

The scope didn't work out. It had a faulty windage turret and I guess it was for the better because now I'm happy to keep the rifle simple and not have a scope.

The ZeroTech optic didn't work and I think I explained it earlier, which left me wanting so I tried another Holosun ARO with gold circle dot and it worked well.

Even with astigmatism I could make hits with 150 yds being the farthest I tried. I was pretty happy as I had better success with this than my tired and true iron sights. The flip-up sights are great don't get me wrong, but I found it easier to make the hits at all the distances including 150 yards. Felt like, I didn't miss.

The scalarworks clone QD mount worked perfectly. Taking it off and on returned to zero after multiple times so I'm perfectly happy with it. I like the hollow shape of it as when installing it I put my left thumb on the bottom holding it in place as I tighten the knob with my right-hand fingers. It's a well thought out design.

I'm convinced this Holosun ARO gold dot is as good a sighting system as I'm going to find and I feel that my search has come to a pleasant conclusion - I'm happy!

I tried to focus on the reticle but my phone didn't cooporate!