Question about PPTing a gun bought a long time ago

[vplaza96]

I have a gun that was bought back in 1988-1989. At that time, I wasn't 21 yet, so my older brother bought the gun for me. I've had it since then, but now, if I want to PPT it, do I need my brother to be the seller on the paperwork or can I be the person on the paperwork?

I checked the interwebs and it sounded like guns bought before 1990 would not have been registered. But I know that the shop I bought it from is no longer in business and I thought that their records would have been turned over to the DOJ, so would they have any record that the gun is not in my name but my brother's?

I don't want to overthink this but I also don't want to cause trouble for the buyer if something comes up with the gun during the PPT.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[ReaperCustom45]

Guns purchased back then wouldn't have been registered. Once you PPT it to someone, it'll be added into the registry at that point. Also, gun store wouldn't have turned over records to DOJ, but to ATF, so DOJ realistically has no record of that gun sale. There's still tons of unregistered guns in the state, CA doesn't care as much that it isn't registered, just that if/when you go to sell it, you go through proper channels. You're fine, go ahead and sell it.

 

[vplaza96]

Guns purchased back then wouldn't have been registered. Once you PPT it to someone, it'll be added into the registry at that point. Also, gun store wouldn't have turned over records to DOJ, but to ATF, so DOJ realistically has no record of that gun sale. There's still tons of unregistered guns in the state, CA doesn't care as much that it isn't registered, just that if/when you go to sell it, you go through proper channels. You're fine, go ahead and sell it.

Thanks for clarifying the ATF vs DOJ.

 

[Dvrjon]

You’re over-thinking this. You don’t need to be the registered owner to sell the gun, nor does the gun have to be in the Registry. DOJ checks to see if the gun is stolen and if the purchaser is not prohibited. The FFL will take your info so if the sale is denied the DOJ can run your background to allow the FFL to return the gun to you.

 

[vplaza96]

You’re over-thinking this. You don’t need to be the registered owner to sell the gun, nor does the gun have to be in the Registry. DOJ checks to see if the gun is stolen and if the purchaser is not prohibited. The FFL will take your info so if the sale is denied the DOJ can run your background to allow the FFL to return the gun to you.

Thanks.

 

[chiroken007]

You’re over-thinking this. You don’t need to be the registered owner to sell the gun, nor does the gun have to be in the Registry. DOJ checks to see if the gun is stolen and if the purchaser is not prohibited. The FFL will take your info so if the sale is denied the DOJ can run your background to allow the FFL to return the gun to you.

On that vein….

Both my dad and my brother passed away within one year. My brother had a safe with all the family firearms including some of his own. His wife doesn’t want much of anything to do with them. Honestly I don’t even know of he ever used his firearms..

If I was to take responsibility of these guns and eventually sell some of the ones that are in good shape but not of interest to me. Would that be an issue? Most of them were purchased 2001-2008 so I am assuming they were registered.
Knowing my brother, I am guessing he had a p226 or p229. That one ain’t going nowhere!!

 

[grandpapeepap]

On that vein….

Both my dad and my brother passed away within one year. My brother had a safe with all the family firearms including some of his own. His wife doesn’t want much of anything to do with them. Honestly I don’t even know of he ever used his firearms..

If I was to take responsibility of these guns and eventually sell some of the ones that are in good shape but not of interest to me. Would that be an issue? Most of them were purchased 2001-2008 so I am assuming they were registered.
Knowing my brother, I am guessing he had a p226 or p229. That one ain’t going nowhere!!

IIRC and dvrjon can correct me if im wrong, if there was a will before they died and the will dictated who would get which guns and they werent otherwise illegal/the person isnt prohibited it would be really simple to acquire the firearms. I think it would even be able to bypass the FFL need to transfer. But i think thats only parents to kid not brother to brother so might need an FFL.

 

[chiroken007]

Their passing was sudden so no wills. I know there shouldn’t be an issue with my dad. Simple paperwork to transfer. For my brothers.. perhaps a PPT to transfer. I was more or less curious if the DROS was to confirm the firearms aren’t questionable.. I am a family member. Would they even care if I sold them?? So my step sister didn’t have to deal with it at all.

 

[Dvrjon]

Not a lawyer, but since there are no wills, who are the executors of the estates? Someone has to manage the settlement and dispersal of the estates.

Presuming that the estates don't need to go into Probate, the individuals in direct succession of the property (You; Your Sister-in-Law, respectively) can claim it or dispose of it. Since both actions relate to decedents, the Operation of Law applies (Interfamilial Transfer is only for the living and recipients are controlled by lineage).

For your Father, this appears to be able to be done through the Operation of Law form and can be done on the CFARS internet site. You would mark the "Acquired From" box as "Executor" or alternatively, "Other" and enter "Father-Deceased". This is also predicated on no other parties (brothers/sisters) wish to assert a claim to the firearms.

For your Brother, the Sister-in-Law directly inherits his property and can also do with it what she wants. Again, so long as other members of the family don't have a viable claim to property. But, since you are not a named heir and not in direct succession, she will have to use PPT to move the guns to you.

Operation of Law appears exempt from the 3-in-30 rule and the "less than 5 transactions/50 guns" rule.

Look at:
California Probate Code: 13006. "Successor of the decedent" means: [...](b) If the decedent died without a will, the sole person or all of the persons who succeeded to the particular item of property of the decedent under Sections 6401 and 6402....
CA Probate Code 6401
CA Probate Code 6402

Since you would be the recipient of the PPT, I doubt it would fly due to the confict of interest. Also, if DOJ prohibits the sale (for whatever reason), the guns can't be returned to you.

Again, not legal counsel, but having dealt with this before, and reading the statutes, I think this is the legal course.