Only ship FFL to FFL! Shipping a gun through pirateship or just making a label at your own risk

[smoothy8500]

enjoy the read

https://assets.ups.com/adobe/assets/urn%3Aaaid%3Aaem%3Ac6bf8a2f-018f-4aa0-838b-ffc1a75eb1d9/original/as/terms-carriage-us-en.pdf

It seems in reading UPS rules/regs, every regulated item (hemp/alcohol/pharmaceuticals/firearms/etc.) the contract reads: UPS reserves the right to dispose of the item if there is a question of legality/prohibited delivery downstream of the acceptance point.

Companies always point to the "fine print" of the contract.

Luckily ATF had stepped in.

 

[HollowOfHaze]

I just sent my Ruger LCP MAX pistol in for service (FedEx). If you use the vendor / FFL supplied shipping labels you are good to go. They are supposed to be on the hook for ensuring that the labels are created in compliance with shipping requirements.
The only requirement is that the box not indicated or be labeled that it contains a firearm.

Plus, as courtesy, throw a chamber flag in for good measure.

What guideline ensures that an FFL-created label is acceptable to ship a firearm?

 

[Gawernator]

What guideline ensures that an FFL-created label is acceptable to ship a firearm?

I posted the link

 

[boltstop]

If an employee stole or attempted to steal the gun, would not the gun be required as evidence? Seems odd that evidence would be destroyed so casually.

 

[smoothy8500]

I'm thinking the pistol discovery wasn't due to theft but the box got damaged and the contents (pistol and/or airtag) fell out. Their cursory investigation for notification of damage and sending back to shipper or recipient lead to their acting on improper shipping procedure.

 

[Unbend]

What guideline ensures that an FFL-created label is acceptable to ship a firearm?

The links in the post specifically cover who is allowed to ship (generate shipping labels), requirements, and restrictions.

U

Post in thread 'Only ship FFL to FFL! Shipping a gun through pirateship or just making a label at your own risk'

Jul 7, 2026

Here's an article directly from Pirate Ship on the subject:

"You can only use USPS to send firearms through Pirate Ship, not UPS.
Due to our agreement with UPS, you can't send any firearms with UPS on Pirate Ship. UPS prohibits guns or firearms of any kind to be sent on our platform. A firearm scope is the only firearm-related item that UPS allows you to buy labels for on Pirate Ship."

How to properly ship guns and firearms on Pirate Ship | Pirate Ship Support

Learn how to package and send firearms to ensure you're compliant with laws and carrier restrictions

support.pirateship.com

"Pirate Ship-specific prohibitions: UPS also prohibits several items from being shipped with...

• Unbend

The packaging & dropoff does not necessarily have to be the person who generated the label.

"UPS accepts packages containing Firearm Products for shipment only as a contractual service and only from Shippers who are licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code) to authorized recipients, as outlined in an approved UPS agreement for the transportation of Firearm Products."

In this case licensed parties referenced above are specifically: FFL08, FFL07, FFL01, and FFL03 holders.
The "contractual service" means they need to have your UPS account marked as such, according to their documentation.

 

[Brilliant-Bat7063]

OP: oh no the consequences of my own actions

 

[smoothy8500]

I don't think that is an accurate point of what happened. The FFL instructed the OP to ship it this way. It would be one thing if the OP had followed the 10 or so suggestions given here to "Just label it as machine parts" to skirt UPS, USPS, or FedEx rules.

 

[DB>)>]

It seems in reading UPS rules/regs, every regulated item (hemp/alcohol/pharmaceuticals/firearms/etc.) the contract reads: UPS reserves the right to dispose of the item if there is a question of legality/prohibited delivery downstream of the acceptance point.

Companies always point to the "fine print" of the contract.

Luckily ATF had stepped in.

Hmmm...

Sounds like "UPS policy" is "GUILTY, because we FEEEEEL like it", with no responsibility or accountability... I recall another "brownshirts" group with that philosophy/mindset, this doesn't seem very "American" to me!?

I've had "issues" with pretty much every shipper at one time or another, had to file many claims along the way on both incoming and outgoing shipments, and collected on the insurance except that ONE time I was in a rush and didn't add it, and of course it was some irreplaceable parts!

 

[Unbend]

OP: oh no the consequences of my own actions

Unfortunately, this is a very real and very common scenario, beyond even this scope of firearm shipping.
The best way to describe this would be epistemic deference (deference to expertise (reliance on expert advice)).
This term does not imply the Gunsmith was actually correct, only a belief they had superior knowledge.

It functions the same way as if the scenario was "What fuel should I put in my tank?" when talking to a mechanic and they say diesel instead of gasoline; or an electrician giving wrong information about which gauge of wire to use and melting from too much current.

I would argue an average reasonable person would make the assumption that a Gunsmith gives accurate advice regarding shipping a firearm.

It's difficult to dunk on OP considering the circumstances known at the time, rather than judging with hindsight. Given relevant facts available which is another individual's apparent expertise.


Far different than a case of what would be a deliberate disregard for consequences, as smoothy8500 mentioned '"Just label it as machine parts" to skirt UPS, USPS, or FedEx rules.'

I don't think that is an accurate point of what happened. The FFL instructed the OP to ship it this way. It would be one thing if the OP had followed the 10 or so suggestions given here to "Just label it as machine parts" to skirt UPS, USPS, or FedEx rules.

 

[p--and--p]

Hang on guys, I might have missed some points.

A. I did 100% of what the expert gunsmith told me to do. Printed out my license, labeled the package as a firearm (that is how they knew) I was told I had to mark it. just FYI if you do NOT mark it as a gun, that is a federal crime (trying to hide whats being shipped) so I was following all LAWS- but UPS also wanted only FFL to FFL shipment and I didn't think to check before I did what the gunsmith said to do. DSC Gunworks gets hundreds of guns a week to work on, they are one of the biggest gunsmiths.

B. I do not think there was any attempt to steal the gun. That was my original thought yes BUT the gun was re-routed to Louisville to the 3rd party for "disposal" and the ATF agent says he has the whole gun (I mean I didnt ask if the slide or frame was missing as I did separate them, but he said its good- so I'm guessing its all there)

C. If you work at UPS and know a gun is inside a package, you could steal it, seal the box back up with some paperweight and ship it to the 3rd party and it seems they dont need to document any of it and then its considered "gone" This is absolutely insane to me but someone could indeed steal guns that way. In this scenario it was shipped as I shipped it and sent to the 3rd party and thats where the ATF guy asked to get it back and they granted it to him

 

[p--and--p]

Unfortunately, this is a very real and very common scenario, beyond even this scope of firearm shipping.
The best way to describe this would be epistemic deference (deference to expertise (reliance on expert advice)).
This term does not imply the Gunsmith was actually correct, only a belief they had superior knowledge.

It functions the same way as if the scenario was "What fuel should I put in my tank?" when talking to a mechanic and they say diesel instead of gasoline; or an electrician giving wrong information about which gauge of wire to use and melting from too much current.

I would argue an average reasonable person would make the assumption that a Gunsmith gives accurate advice regarding shipping a firearm.

It's difficult to dunk on OP considering the circumstances known at the time, rather than judging with hindsight. Given relevant facts available which is another individual's apparent expertise.


Far different than a case of what would be a deliberate disregard for consequences, as smoothy8500 mentioned '"Just label it as machine parts" to skirt UPS, USPS, or FedEx rules.'

Thank you, this is 100%... I followed step by step exactly what to do, insured it- overnight'd etc but I didn't look into it past what the gunsmith said- thats where people need to not just rely on "experts" (Fauci anyone?) but do your own homework!!

 

[Unbend]

Hang on guys, I might have missed some points.

A. I did 100% of what the expert gunsmith told me to do. Printed out my license, labeled the package as a firearm (that is how they knew) I was told I had to mark it. just FYI if you do NOT mark it as a gun, that is a federal crime (trying to hide whats being shipped) so I was following all LAWS- but UPS also wanted only FFL to FFL shipment and I didn't think to check before I did what the gunsmith said to do. DSC Gunworks gets hundreds of guns a week to work on, they are one of the biggest gunsmiths.

B. I do not think there was any attempt to steal the gun. That was my original thought yes BUT the gun was re-routed to Louisville to the 3rd party for "disposal" and the ATF agent says he has the whole gun (I mean I didnt ask if the slide or frame was missing as I did separate them, but he said its good- so I'm guessing its all there)

C. If you work at UPS and know a gun is inside a package, you could steal it, seal the box back up with some paperweight and ship it to the 3rd party and it seems they dont need to document any of it and then its considered "gone" This is absolutely insane to me but someone could indeed steal guns that way. In this scenario it was shipped as I shipped it and sent to the 3rd party and thats where the ATF guy asked to get it back and they granted it to him

I'm curious where you got the information that it was a federal crime not to label the box.
This seems to have been the nail in the coffin for your shipment being handled the way it was.

Every shipper I have seen (USPS, UPS, and FedEx), all state something similar; that it must not be labeled or indicate that it contains a firearm.

Example from UPS policy Packaging and Labeling Requirements for Firearm Products:
https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/s...are-regulated-items/prohibited-items/firearms:

"The labeling and outer box markings on all Firearm Products shipments must not identify the contents as containing Firearm Products."

 

[Gawernator]

There we have it - the fatal mistake. You are never supposed to label the box as a firearm. If you didn't do that it would have just gone through

 

[Unbend]

Here's a screenshot of the email I was sent from Ruger when I shipped my pistol to them for servicing via FedEx.

 

[p--and--p]

OMG GUYS, NOT LABELING the BOX lol..

labeling the contents a "firearm" when creating the label is what I meant!!

The box was just BROWN and no markings.

 

[p--and--p]

There we have it - the fatal mistake. You are never supposed to label the box as a firearm. If you didn't do that it would have just gone through

100% wrong. Too many assumptions, the gunsmith knows this and I was following his steps and it was a blank box but the contents were told it was a firearm

 

[Unbend]

OMG GUYS, NOT LABELING the BOX lol..

labeling the contents a "firearm" when creating the label is what I meant!!

The box was just BROWN and no markings.

Did the shipping label say "firearm" anywhere on it then?

 

[p--and--p]

Did the shipping label say "firearm" anywhere on it then?

Nope! It was internal to the label when scanning, so it didn't list whats inside the box.

This is when the UPS driver should have scanned it and said he couldn't take it- but I guess he wouldn't know if I was not an FFL myself?? Maybe it flagged somewhere else later but he should have refused it

 

[Unbend]

Interesting.
Since you said "UPS driver", was this a home package pickup?
That potentially could have triggered their internal handling proccess.

Refer to my other post mentioning at #6 "UPS will only accept firearms shipments from a UPS Customer Center."

U

Post in thread 'Only ship FFL to FFL! Shipping a gun through pirateship or just making a label at your own risk'

Jul 9, 2026

Here's a screenshot of the email I was sent from Ruger when I shipped my pistol to them for servicing via FedEx.

• Unbend