Legal Making sense out of the C&R list... Is you is or is you ain't?

[PlinkyDinky]

I'm new to this, and a complete duffer: I was looking through the ATF's list, and I see "Phoenix, (U.S.A.), pistol, cal. .25 ACP."

This seems awfully vague or broad; how the heck am I supposed to make sense out of this? Is it referring to any .25 pistol manufactured by Phoenix Arms? Is it saying that the HP25A is a C&R, as well as the Raven .25 manufactured by Phoenix? And if the Raven .25 made by Phoenix is a C&R, then why aren't the older (but not 50-years-old-yet) guns actually made by Raven? Or is there a different Phoenix that I'm not aware of? I'm clearly missing something, here.

My head hurts.

 

[FunGun]

I don't think that it is for the Phoenix Arms 25 cal. It is most likely for model named Phoenix manufactured by some one else and is most likely a one of a kind pistol. Individual firearms can be added to the C&R list. Usually the serial # is listed next to the listing. It is not easy to get an individual firearm on the list and you need to have a really good reason to get it listed.

 

[PlinkyDinky]

Yeah, it's weird. There's no serial or anything; what I quoted is all it says about it, and you're right, it doesn't even specify Phoenix Arms, so I'm completely in the dark, here.

 

[Gawernator]

The ATF C&R list entries are often shorthand. “Phoenix, U.S.A., pistol, cal. .25 ACP” appears to refer to the Phoenix-marked Raven-type .25 ACP pistol, not necessarily the HP25A and not necessarily Raven Arms-made pistols. Raven Arms and Phoenix Arms are related historically, but they are not the same manufacturer. If the gun is actually marked Raven Arms, it would need to qualify on its own, usually by the 50-year rule unless separately listed.

 

[PlinkyDinky]

If that's the case, it does seem strange that the Phoenix-made Raven-type would be a C&R, while actual Ravens aren't, but the Feds work in mysterious ways...