CCW Magazine Capacity for CCW

[9mmContagion]

Comparing citizens to LEO's in terms of mags seems a very odd justification; they have very different threat scenarios to contend with. If you feel you can't get it done in 11 (+spare mags) it's your decision to break the current law, but the consequences could be dire.

Comparing my life to a LEO life seems legitimate…. Why is any LE life more important than mine or my family’s? Are they not dealing with the exact same person that any CCW holder might be dealing with? Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile! Your mentality is what has led to magazine bans. My life is just as important as any person. If 2 extra rounds means I’m walking away alive, so be it! My life is more important than some liberal law maker saying an arbitrary number of rounds in my mag is legal or not.

 

[bonesurf]

The "rule of 3" is not necessarily adhered to by the bad guys. When you are out because there are 2 or 3 of them, I bet you won't be concerned about your waistline. Better to have it and not need it than visa versa brother. I carry 10+1 and and extra 10 mag. Get a good stiff tactical belt, problem solved.

you live a life where a tactical belt "fits". I dont. frankly would look odd and weird for most of my life. again to each their own.

 

[9mmContagion]

you live a life where a tactical belt "fits". I dont. frankly would look odd and weird for most of my life. again to each their own.

To be fair, I think his comment is geared more towards getting a good gun belt. A good gun belt can make an enormous difference in carrying even the lightest gun. I’d recommend a Blue Alpha Gear Hybrid EDC belt. I’ve never met one person who has tried this belt and not noticed a significant difference between a flimsy leather or cloth belt that you’d wear if you weren’t carrying.

It’s like carrying a Jansport backpack while hiking, rather than a proper hiking backpack that will distribute a load

 

[bonesurf]

again, the assumption here is that wearing that belt "fits" with what you are wearing. I'm not disputing that a solid belt changes this. absolutely correct. this is going WAYYYY off topic. I think the more interesting thing is what @cali_jazz cited in terms of magazines. so....just dont do it. I would personally agree that having a second mag is way easier to conceal and frankly if somewhere in the vicinity of 15-21 bullets total isnt gonna take care of the problem you stepped into a firefight not a personal defense scenario. John Wick is not real life.

 

[9mmContagion]

again, the assumption here is that wearing that belt "fits" with what you are wearing. I'm not disputing that a solid belt changes this. absolutely correct. this is going WAYYYY off topic. I think the more interesting thing is what @cali_jazz cited in terms of magazines. so....just dont do it. I would personally agree that having a second mag is way easier to conceal and frankly if somewhere in the vicinity of 15-21 bullets total isnt gonna take care of the problem you stepped into a firefight not a personal defense scenario. John Wick is not real life.

What type of attire are you normally wearing that a proper carry belt wouldn’t be used?

I only ask because I’ve worn my Blue Alpha belt with gym shorts, my work bibs, and regular attire. For dress attire I have a Crossbreed Executive Gun belt.

 

[bonesurf]

OK, we are still staying way off of topic?

You have zero disagreement from me that a proper belt can mitigate Carry drag. I will also say that I probably should not have started this by mentioning. I frequently only have seven or so in my magazine. I will completely agree that another three probably doesn’t matter weight wise.

But……Dude you wore a belt w gym attire? If that doesn’t scream you are hiding something nothing does. Cmon. No one goes to the gym wearing a carry belt. Ok atheleisure wear? Sweats w a belt??? Joggers w a belt? Granted a fanny pack sling bag or whatever deals with it. And truthfully, that I do frequently. I often Use a small messenger. style bag.

Scrubs. Nobody wears a belt with scrubs.

dress attire is problematic. Cause you gotta have the pants all let out a bit for carry and if you aren’t carrying it fits wrong. Yeah yeah yeah. I care about it looking right. The easiest solution to this is going without a belt and using adjustable side tabs but then you aren’t using a belt. And you can’t carry in many venues.

 

[9mmContagion]

OK, we are still staying way off of topic?

You have zero disagreement from me that a proper belt can mitigate Carry drag. I will also say that I probably should not have started this by mentioning. I frequently only have seven or so in my magazine. I will completely agree that another three probably doesn’t matter weight wise.

But……Dude you wore a belt w gym attire? If that doesn’t scream you are hiding something nothing does. Cmon. No one goes to the gym wearing a carry belt. Ok atheleisure wear? Sweats w a belt??? Joggers w a belt? Granted a fanny pack sling bag or whatever deals with it. And truthfully, that I do frequently. I often Use a small messenger. style bag.

Scrubs. Nobody wears a belt with scrubs.

dress attire is problematic. Cause you gotta have the pants all let out a bit for carry and if you aren’t carrying it fits wrong. Yeah yeah yeah. I care about it looking right. The easiest solution to this is going without a belt and using adjustable side tabs but then you aren’t using a belt. And you can’t carry in many venues.

It’s not too far off topic considering your argument for loading down your CCW was to save weight for comfort..

I work construction. When I get off, I change into comfortable clothes (gym shorts and light T-shirt) for my often times long commute. I also frequent the park with my kids, kids practices, physical activity with the kids, etc. all to which I may wear gym shorts, or pants, as well as a light T shirt. My EDC belt rides right along the outside of the waistband of my gym shorts with no slipping. Unless I were to tuck in my shirt, nobody would ever know I was carrying. I’m not appendix carrying at the gym, in fact I’d say any carry at the gym isn’t right for me.

I put scrubs in the same category as workout attire, it can be done with an untucked shirt.

Aside from restrictions in venues, court houses, etc. I don’t see why one couldn’t wear a nice leather gun belt such as the Crossbreed I mentioned. J hooks are made for a reason.

But hey, if you choose not to carry based on your attire, not my problem… most of the bases have been covered for almost all attire in the CCW market now

 

[bonesurf]

But hey, if you choose not to carry based on your attire, not my problem… most of the bases have been covered for almost all attire in the CCW market now

didnt say I was choosing NOT to carry based on attire choices. just adjust WHAT I carry. when I am not carrying its because I'm somewhere I cannot legally carry. but again I will admit I probably shouldn't have brought it up at all because the difference of a few rounds is meaningless I am in total agreement. also I would add caveat that I am not big enough physically to reasonably carry anything full size, so function of reality even with "freedom" mags I would max out around 12 anyways.

oh and in the age of Figs, scrubs and a belt under the shirt/high above the pants or what not...it dont work lol.

I would emphasize what is interesting and on topic is what @cali_jazz brought up which is that in fact in CA none of us should be using "freedom" mags to carry in CA at risk of legal entanglement. that's something I didnt know and dont really recall being covered in any of my classes. which doubly makes anything I brought up about a few rounds more or less meaningless. so. yeah. anything I brought up is null and void.

 

[cali_jazz]

Thats what I was told by San Bernardino when I was in class. I have 10 in the mag, 1 in the hole and a spare 10 mag clipped inside my pocket that looks like a knife clip.

As much as they hate the CA gun laws, and they really hate them, the SB Sheriff teaching our class said CCW are not LEO and need to adhere to CA law which is 10 rounds. He said if we are found in possession they can arrest you and you will most definitely lose that ccw. He specifically said freedom mags are not allowed.

I train with 10, always have so I’m used to it. If I feel I need to carry more ammo, then I’ll carry extra mags. I don’t for see me playing out the shoot out scene from the movie Heat, so figure I’m good with 21 rounds.

 

[cali_jazz]

Thats what I was told by San Bernardino when I was in class. I have 10 in the mag, 1 in the hole and a spare 10 mag clipped inside my pocket that looks like a knife clip.

As much as they hate the CA gun laws, and they really hate them, the SB Sheriff teaching our class said CCW are not LEO and need to adhere to CA law which is 10 rounds. He said if we are found in possession they can arrest you and you will most definitely lose that ccw. He specifically said freedom mags are not allowed.

I train with 10, always have so I’m used to it. If I feel I need to carry more ammo, then I’ll carry extra mags. I don’t for see me playing out the shoot out scene from the movie Heat, so figure I’m good with 21 rounds.

From what I have heard from experts, given CA laws of proportional use of force, the need to utilize more than 11 rounds is extremely rarely needed to squelch the actual threat. Disproportional use of your firearm will land you in hot hot water.

 

[cali_jazz]

I'm sure it depends on the situation, for example the beat. A park ranger (who is a sworn LEO and carries a gun) is different from a rural sheriff, and different from a city PD in a bad neighborhood (Oakland, ...), and yet different from traffic duty. And carrying while on duty but not enforcing the law but doing administrative or political work is yet different.


If the conditions on the CCW say that it is restricted to certain mag capacities (or to certain guns, or to the original configuration of the gun with mag disco, or any other such restriction), then the permit becomes invalid when those restrictions are not met. This is not a question of "violating" the permit, but of the permit even being valid. There is no legal consequence for violating the permit in and of itself. I can stand at home, in front of the bathroom mirror, with a 17-round magazine in my eponymous Glock 17 (which is not on my permit), and I have violated the permit, but I have broken no law, since in my bathroom I'm allowed to conceal any gun I want. Once I go out in public, the conclusion changes, and I'm now violating the law that says that one must not carry concealed without a (valid) permit.

Probably a stupid question i am sure.

If i have regular capacity magazines (greater than 10 rounds) that i purchased legally. (I.e. freedom week, etc.) Can i carry these in my EDC CCW.

FWIW I recently did a CCW modification and asked the deputy at the Kern County sheriff's office while i was picking up and he told me 'only standard capacity'. When i questioned if that meant standard like 15 or 17 rounds he said 'no 6 or 7 rounds'. So yeah... not much help there.

Thanks!

Reno May discusses this in detail on his YouTube channel, recommended viewing:

 

[Jayincali]

From what I have heard from experts, given CA laws of proportional use of force, the need to utilize more than 11 rounds is extremely rarely needed to squelch the actual threat. Disproportional use of your firearm will land you in hot hot water.

Exactly which like I said, I stick to a 10 mag, 1 in the pipe then one spare 10 mag, which is 21 legally carried rounds.

 

[cali_jazz]

To be fair, I think his comment is geared more towards getting a good gun belt. A good gun belt can make an enormous difference in carrying even the lightest gun. I’d recommend a Blue Alpha Gear Hybrid EDC belt. I’ve never met one person who has tried this belt and not noticed a significant difference between a flimsy leather or cloth belt that you’d wear if you weren’t carrying.

It’s like carrying a Jansport backpack while hiking, rather than a proper hiking backpack that will distribute a load

Exactly what I was referring to. Of course you can't always wear a belt, but when you do a good tactical belt does the job perfectly. By the way I also wear the Blue Alpha Hybrid! Great minds...

 

[Mongoose913]

Depends on your IA, but San Diego will allow anything that is legal to own.

 

[Joker67]

Thats what I was told by San Bernardino when I was in class. I have 10 in the mag, 1 in the hole and a spare 10 mag clipped inside my pocket that looks like a knife clip.

As much as they hate the CA gun laws, and they really hate them, the SB Sheriff teaching our class said CCW are not LEO and need to adhere to CA law which is 10 rounds. He said if we are found in possession they can arrest you and you will most definitely lose that ccw. He specifically said freedom mags are not allowed.

I train with 10, always have so I’m used to it. If I feel I need to carry more ammo, then I’ll carry extra mags. I don’t for see me playing out the shoot out scene from the movie Heat, so figure I’m good with 21 rounds.

Our Sheriff said Freedom Week mags are fine. In writing. Any court cases with magazine charges after a justified self defense shooting where no other charges are filed?

 

[SteamedHams]

Believe it or not SFPD (yes, SF) has no mag capacity restriction, and no modifications restriction other than caliber conversions.

 

[DrJonesUSA]

Several rounds of 9mm weight a few ounces, not a few pounds. At the end of the day, if a particular cop wants to ease the belt, they can take out all the spare mags. Surprisingly. they don't do it. Instead, some of them have a backup gun. I wonder why

If your IA restricts your mag capacity, obviously you comply. Otherwise, you are good to go

Thanks for stating so elegantly the points that I was trying to lead the other poster to.
I’ll simply add that, to my knowledge, I’ve never heard of any CCW permit that specifically calls out magazine / firearm ammo capacity. Not to say it doesn’t exist, but I’ve never heard of one & I’m 99% sure mine doesn’t say anything about it either. I will definitely go & double check, but again the point stands; if nothing at all in your ….terms & conditions?….of your CCW say anything about mag capacity, then its purely a judgement call for each individual to make.

I again repeat that everyone needs to weigh the cost of whatever could possibly be the penalty for carrying a standard capacity magazine - which the state might not even be able to prove is illegal - vs. the possibility that those extra rounds could save your life, or that of your family member(s).

 

[DrJonesUSA]

It’s the tipping point. And why carry and be uncomfortable? Again. Given the rule of 3s unless you are planning on going to war why are you carrying more than 10 anyways? I’m not talking about a rooftop Korean situation. Im talking about normal everyday. I mean shoot sometimes i carry the airweight and that’s maxed out at 5 anyways.

A) You definitely need a far better gun belt if 5-6 rounds “drag down your waistline”

B) Threat assessment is for everyone to make for themselves, but I’ve never heard of anyone who’s been in any sort of gunfight, say after the fact that they wished they’d had LESS ammo.

Mind you; I’m not saying you need to strap dozens of rounds to your body; but toss 2-3 extra mags into your bag / briefcase. There’s no way that makes any difference to your daily comfort, but it could possibly save your life some day.

C) CCW is supposed to be comfortING, not comfortABLE.
Big difference.
Again; not saying that means everyone needs to CCW a Desert Eagle, S&W .500 or anything ridiculous, but I again repeat if half a dozen rounds are making or breaking your carry decisions, you need to rethink how you + why you are carrying.

 

[bonesurf]

A) You definitely need a far better gun belt if 5-6 rounds “drag down your waistline” not wearing a belt. that's the thing. and I get that a belt changes it.

B) Threat assessment is for everyone to make for themselves, but I’ve never heard of anyone who’s been in any sort of gunfight, say after the fact that they wished they’d had LESS ammo.

Mind you; I’m not saying you need to strap dozens of rounds to your body; but toss 2-3 extra mags into your bag / briefcase. There’s no way that makes any difference to your daily comfort, but it could possibly save your life some day. this is a more pertinent point. it's easier to throw an extra mag here or there. and again. if 15-21 rounds more or less isnt enough, you stepped into Falloujah not a personal defense situation

C) CCW is supposed to be comfortING, not comfortABLE.
Big difference.
Again; not saying that means everyone needs to CCW a Desert Eagle, S&W .500 or anything ridiculous, but I again repeat if half a dozen rounds are making or breaking your carry decisions, you need to rethink how you + why you are carrying. disagree. if you cant make it BOTH comforting and comfortable you aren't going to do it reproducibly--again just my opinion

 

[DrJonesUSA]

Thats what I was told by San Bernardino when I was in class. I have 10 in the mag, 1 in the hole and a spare 10 mag clipped inside my pocket that looks like a knife clip.

As much as they hate the CA gun laws, and they really hate them, the SB Sheriff teaching our class said CCW are not LEO and need to adhere to CA law which is 10 rounds. He said if we are found in possession they can arrest you and you will most definitely lose that ccw. He specifically said freedom mags are not allowed.

I train with 10, always have so I’m used to it. If I feel I need to carry more ammo, then I’ll carry extra mags. I don’t for see me playing out the shoot out scene from the movie Heat, so figure I’m good with 21 rounds.

That doesn’t sound like someone who “really hates CA gun laws.”
Sheriffs - like all LEO - have very broad discretion to decide what to “see” and charge you with, as I understand it.
Either way, one more reason why you should definitely have several 10-round (or less, depending on the gun of course) mags with you, if you choose to also carry standard-cap mags.