LASD CCW DENIED - Worth appealing?

[RickD427]

A bit different matter, did not want to start new thread, I have a very close family member I want to give an AR to, but he has 2x felony record from upto a decade or so ago. I think he had it expunged or whatevers its called.

What are the chances he passes or fails dros if we went through the process?

If all that he got was an expungment of the felony convictions, he remains a prohibited person. He commits a felony if he possesses a firearm, and you commit a felony if you give him one. It's important to note that California's expungment statute specifically provides that it does not restore firearms rights. Please refer to Penal Code section 1203.4(a)(2).

A legal process that some similarly affected folks have tried is to obtain a reduction of the felony to a misdemeanor under the provisions of Penal Code section 17(b)(3). Not all felonies qualify for this treatment, and if the resulting misdemeanor conviction is still prohibiting, then you're outta luck.

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

How am I committing a felony if we go through the dros process and he fails?

Are you saying anyone who sells a gun via PPT, they are on the hook as well if the buyer fails the Dros because they was prohibited? I doubt it, or we'd be hearing a whole new stories on people getting arrested due to PPT.

 

[H. Bowman]

Not anyone, but you have knowledge that he's prohibited. Have him do the eligibility check to see, not attempt to purchase a firearm.

 

[RickD427]

How am I committing a felony if we go through the dros process and he fails?

Are you saying anyone who sells a gun via PPT, they are on the hook as well if the buyer fails the Dros because they was prohibited? I doubt it, or we'd be hearing a whole new stories on people getting arrested due to PPT.

Who said that you are committing a felony "if we go through the DROS process and he fails"?

I said that "you commit a felony if you give him one (a firearm)"

Big difference there.

Please pay attention to what is written.

Additionally, your reasoning process seems to be a bit backward. It's not the DROS process that defines if a person is legally able to acquire a firearm (that's the part you seem to have backward). It's the application of statute that defines that ability. The DROS process attempts (with less than perfect accuracy) if any statute precludes a person from acquiring a firearm. It is possible that a person could pass the DROS process and illegally acquire a firearm. It is also possible (and we see many anecdotes on this forum) that a person could fail DROS even though they are fully qualified to purchase.

 

[NorCalBusa]

A bit different matter, did not want to start new thread, I have a very close family member I want to give an AR to, but he has 2x felony record from upto a decade or so ago. I think he had it expunged or whatevers its called.

What are the chances he passes or fails dros if we went through the process?

Were the felony convictions for violence or what?

 

[NorCalBusa]

Google's "How to"
<<< >>>
Getting a personal firearms eligibility check in California
To get a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) in California, you'll need to submit an application to the California Department of Justice (DOJ). This check is performed to determine if you are prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
Required steps

1. Complete the PFEC Application (BOF 116): You can download this form from the California DOJ website or get it from a local firearms dealer.
2. Gather required documents:
   • A photocopy of your California driver's license or identification card.
   • If you are a non-U.S. citizen, a copy of your Alien Registration or I-94 card.
3. Get your application notarized: A licensed California Notary Public must notarize the application, and you'll need to include an impression of your right thumbprint.
4. Pay the fee: The PFEC fee is $20, payable to the Department of Justice by check or money order (do not send cash).
5. Mail the completed application package and fee: Send it toEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
   BUREAU OF FIREARMS - PFEC
   P.O. BOX 820200
   SACRAMENTO, CA 94203-0200

Important considerations

• Processing time: The DOJ endeavors to process PFEC requests within 60 days of receipt.
• PFEC does not include a Federal NICS check: This means even if you are deemed eligible by the PFEC, you might still be prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law.
• A PFEC is not required to purchase a firearm: It is primarily for individuals who are unsure of their eligibility and want to avoid potential delays or denials during the actual firearm purchase process.

<<< >>>
Sound right?

 

[classicman213]

A bit different matter, did not want to start new thread, I have a very close family member I want to give an AR to, but he has 2x felony record from upto a decade or so ago. I think he had it expunged or whatevers its called.

What are the chances he passes or fails dros if we went through the process?

Fail

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

Were the felony convictions for violence or what?

Well....
He ain't getting it lol.

It was for many things per se. But let's just say Gang Units in OC knew him by name, and maybe 1 or 2 officers knew me as the "good one," since we both have similar friends so similar hang outs.

We had gone through alot of fisticuffs.

 

[marcusrn]

it obviously depends on your record and RAP sheet, your story! That saying I always believe in appealing. I have applyed and appealled 3X in SD county and won 2X appeals. Not good being involved in 5150/5250 DTS/DTO holds. Cost lots lawyer $ not worth trouble.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

I don't have denial experience, but word is* you do not want that (ever) as it follows you if you apply elsewhere. Accepting that premise, you absolutely to not want a denial- so if you see one coming- bail out and withdraw your app right away. You can then start over once things get sorted.

*Anyone know if this is true and prevalent?

I’ve been denied once before for sealed (not expunged) juvenile records that WERE NOT juvenile convictions; didn’t even get the interview process, straight to denial. I went down to speak to the IA to ask to speak with someone in person to ask about the denial because obviously it WAS NOT for failure to disclose, made sure to be polite and respectful regardless of the outcome, IA told me to re-apply since post SB2 is about whether or not you are prohibited from owning firearms; it’s no longer about good moral character. When I initially applied it was post bruen, but pre-sb2, so it was about good moral character, IA explained they (as an IA) judge on a lifetime of good moral character; even though they were juvenile records that were sealed after turning 18 years old. They also said post bruen/pre-sb2, there is no appeals process. Post sb2; there is an appeals process.

They told me they didn’t notice anything in my profile on my original application that would cause me to be denied again since it would be post bruen and post sb-2; also told me thank you for being honest in the initial application, we appreciate that.

I was actually surprised that I was initially denied since I’ve read stories back on the old time players CalGuns website back then of individuals who had a juvenile past but the IA still approved since they were honest on the application and interview. That’s the reason I finally applied post bruen/pre-sb2; but waited too long since I was hesitant. I even asked the IA before my initial application post bruen/pre-sb2; they told me that they have had permittees who were approved that have had juvenile records and even juvenile incarceration.

Any who, re-applied, approved, and am a permittee now.

 

[raellic]

A bit different matter, did not want to start new thread, I have a very close family member I want to give an AR to, but he has 2x felony record from upto a decade or so ago. I think he had it expunged or whatevers its called.

What are the chances he passes or fails dros if we went through the process?

Are they in California? Did they file a petition to restore their firearm rights?

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/bof4009C.pdf

 

[raellic]

Well....
He ain't getting it lol.

It was for many things per se. But let's just say Gang Units in OC knew him by name, and maybe 1 or 2 officers knew me as the "good one," since we both have similar friends so similar hang outs.

We had gone through alot of fisticuffs.

I'm not trying to be dramatic, but regardless of your feelings about expungement of felonies, this discussion makes no sense for you to post on a public forum. Free advice: don't even try to do such a transfer when you have knowledge that the person is in a prohibited category under 18 U.S.C. sec. 922(d). Side note, I looked up the current status of restoration petitions, and the U.S. DOJ has issued an interim final rule that the ATF has no authority to process restoration petitions at this point, as of March 2025: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/the...e-their-right-receive-or-possess-firearms-and

So the petition for restoration under state law will have no effect. I also can confirm that no judge, even in the most liberal parts of California, when presented with this type of petition is going to allow a former gang member with two felonies to own any firearms.

 

[That Glock Guy]

Appeal.

The first time I applied before bruen, I was denied. I didn’t appeal.

I tried a second time, after bruen. I was denied again but this time I appealed and was successful in getting my permit.

They also mentioned that if I would have appealed the first time, they most likely would have given me the permit, after hearing my side of the story.

 

[RickD427]

Are they in California? Did they file a petition to restore their firearm rights?

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/bof4009C.pdf

Please note that this form only works to relieve firearms disabilities incurred as a result of a WIC 5150 emergency detention. It does not work to relieve disabilities resulting from felony convictions.

As the barrister points out in his subsequent posting, the State of California can not relieve a person of the federal firearms disability that results from felony conviction (but, in some cases, it can remove the felony conviction that produced the federal disability).

California can still relieve the disability produced from a WIC 5150 detention because such a detention does not trigger any federal disability. However, a California detention under WIC 5250 does produce a federal disability that cannot be legally cured.

 

[treelogger]

... since post SB2 is about whether or not you are prohibited from owning firearms; it’s no longer about good moral character.

That is technically correct, but misleading. Even post SB2, the IA can and shall investigate and decide on whether the applicant is suitable. Nowhere in Section 26202 (which controls issuing CCW) does it say that a license SHALL be issued if the applicant can own firearms. Instead, it contains the following sentence:

An applicant ... cannot receive a license ... if the applicant ... is reasonably likely to be a danger to self, others, or the community at large, as demonstrated by anything in the application ... or through the investigation ... or as shown by the results of any psychological assessment ...

Observe a few key words in there:

• the community at large
• anything in
• through the investigation
• the results of a psychological assessment

In addition to the above, the license is to be denied if the applicant has a variety of convictions, in various time periods (5 and 10 years, and forever). So the logic is the other way around: if the applicant can not own firearms, they will also be automatically denied a CCW. That is logically equivalent to: if the applicant was approved for a CCW, they can also own firearms. And it is very different from: if the applicant can own firearms, they will also be approved for a CCW. (Side remark: in reality, most gun control laws about possession not ownership, but that's not an important detail here.)

And the question about "danger to others or the community at large" remains in the purview of either the IA, or of the court in an appeal, using only the "preponderance of the evidence" (meaning 51%) standard.

 

[drinktothat421]

Your “good or moral character” is the only area where denial is debatable. Whatever is on your record is how they judge you. Maybe you have changed maybe you havent . Sadly they dont own you any favors so its can be easy for them to say no from something years ago. Appeal it and see what happens.

 

[Lady Ruger]

So just a little update on this post

I did file an appeal and actually have a hearing scheduled for Aug,

Now i'm not sure if i need to go in with an attorney or just take everything I have and go by myself and explain why I shouldn't be denied

We are nearing the end of September. What was the outcome?

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

I don't have denial experience, but word is* you do not want that (ever) as it follows you if you apply elsewhere. Accepting that premise, you absolutely to not want a denial- so if you see one coming- bail out and withdraw your app right away. You can then start over once things get sorted.

*Anyone know if this is true and prevalent?

A denial does stick with you in a way where when re-applying, the app did ask if you have ever been denied and why. Just answer truthfully the reason for denial.

 

[hwanggbang]

We are nearing the end of September. What was the outcome?

Went to the appeal, and pretty much DA and IA LT was present, pretty much the judge just denied my appeal because of my previous records , I'm going to wait the 2 years and try again and hire an attorney that time around

 

[Lady Ruger]

Went to the appeal, and pretty much DA and IA LT was present, pretty much the judge just denied my appeal because of my previous records , I'm going to wait the 2 years and try again and hire an attorney that time around

Hmmmm what was your previous records?