Announcement Important Update: Deposits Requests = Ban 🚨

[treelogger]

I've been playing with the idea of using a multi-sig crypto contract using USDC, but the learning curve might be a bit much for the majority of users here.

Some of us know too much about (a) how crypto works, and (b) how it is commonly used. And will therefore never touch anything that involves crypto coins or blockchain with a 100-foot pole. Except to write academic papers about it and get patents on it.

Serious: I hold some patents on crypto technology. I have never bought a single coin of any kind, and never will. I trust my bank (or credit union) somewhat; I don't trust many other people. I think all my recent gun sales used little green pieces of paper as a form of payment in face-to-face transactions.

 

[Pewpewwagon]

Preventing or at least minimizing scams is a great thing and I am a fan of anything that can be done to do so. Saying you'll ban people for requesting minimal deposits through zelle is a bit ridiculous, in my opinion, but like I've said before, not my house not my rules. I have several hundred purchases and sales through various websites and forums over the last bunch of years and can only remember a single time being scammed...and it was through F-ing Paypal and ebay of all things. Empty box was delivered, ebay said tracking showed it was delivered, seller sent ebay a picture of the item being packaged, ebay and paypal both denied my claim and I got screwed. Shortly after my account was locked because it was a firearm part/accessory (purchased on ebay and paid through paypal, remember) and enough money to buy a new pistol was locked up and inaccessible with it.

Was this like 20 years ago? eBay , just like Amazon, always gave the buyers money back.

 

[H. Bowman]

Was this like 20 years ago? eBay , just like Amazon, always gave the buyers money back.

It was 2 weeks ago.

 

[pikachu]

It was 2 weeks ago.

That is F-ed. Sorry to hear

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

Hell, maybe there could be a group-funded "insurance" type thing. Buyer sends a ten or twenty dollar deposit and if they get scammed by a scammy bag seller, they get reimbursed their cup of coffee by the fund. I'd contribute to that to minimize losses by honest folks. Everyone that's going to use marketplace kicks in a buck or three that sits in a pool to make victims of scams whole again.

Uhhh.. a big No. I ain't paying for other peoples' mistakes. Some people are just too much a dumbass that they got no choice but to get scammed. Too good of a deal? Yes sir, they'll get fooled right in.

Many gunowners are also senile, and some of them technology inept.

Look, I may sound like an ass, but I have never been scammed or scammed anyone (*knock on wood**). I am losing money for some bs insurance that will never apply to me.

 

[ikeo1]

Uhhh.. a big No. I ain't paying for other peoples' mistakes. Some people are just too much a dumbass that they got no choice but to get scammed. Too good of a deal? Yes sir, they'll get fooled right in.

Many gunowners are also senile, and some of them technology inept.

Look, I may sound like an ass, but I have never been scammed or scammed anyone (*knock on wood**). I am losing money for some bs insurance that will never apply to me.

This is why there are options.. What are the odds they are senile, technology inept, AND against paypal?

That said, i'm thinking about implementing it on blockchain, so you purchase a $50 deposit badge, that will allow you to request deposits where you can request up to $40 deposit. In the event of a no show, you we'll reimburse them as long as its in DM and we can coordinate. We keep a portion so it doesn't get abused.

I think this might satisfy things. You can submit via cc or Ethereum. I think this would satisfy all parties. If you leave a deposit, then you have a badge with some backing behind it.

What do you think? @H. Bowman ? This should be pretty limited from the number of people who want to request deposits. I actually think this might work.

 

[H. Bowman]

If someone is doing it as a business and doing a lot of selling, sure. Occasional or a couple sales a year?

No way in hell I'd pay fifty bucks so that I can ask for a ten dollar deposit though. That's insane.

Plenty_pack has an issue with reading comprehension. He's talking about buyers getting scammed over too good of a deal in a retort to my comment about sellers being out time and fuel because of buyers no-showing. I'm not talking about scams at all, I'm talking about wasted time and fuel. It's an hour drive for me to go to the nearest FFL. If I, as a seller, have someone no-show, I'm out at LEAST 30 bucks in fuel and 2 hours of time, plus whatever time I wait around hoping they show up. I rarely bother even trying to sell things under $500 anymore because it isn't worth the time to drive to a local shop to initiate a transfer.

I currently have several rifles I'd like to sell, but because of the distance and time involved, they'd likely be for shipping only, with lots of photos and opportunity for buyer to ask for any info or photos they want. And because there wouldn't be an in-person inspection available, I'd price then lower, accordingly. But then you get people like plenty_pack who refuse to understand simple things and it makes me just figure what the hell, I'll keep it instead of dealing with them.

Maybe I'm a complete one-off. I still don't know what the heck +13 flair means, or what GFAS is and I feel like I want to keep it that way. I do enjoy buying, selling, collecting, and being involved with historically significant firearms but...everything about this thread makes me think I don't want to bother listing anything on this particular forum. Sucks for me., as I do really enjoy the shooting sports world and the firearms history world. Hell, I'm planning another trip to Cody because last time I did it the full day I spent at the museum wasn't enough to see it all. Doesn't make one bit of difference to anyone else though, if I choose to (or get banned from) not engage in buying and selling here. Not everybody is in to the games and dungeons and dragons rankings and badges. Some people just want to shoot and collect. It's a good thing there's enough internet out there for everyone.

I'll throw an ad up in the next few days to see how the system here works and see if I can navigate it without getting banned or scammed...

 

[ikeo1]

No way in hell I'd pay fifty bucks so that I can ask for a ten dollar deposit though. That's insane.

It's actually for $40 not $10. If what you're selling is in the hundreds, it shouldn't be a big deal. You'd also be supporting the site and other users here since most things are free.

If you don't want to use it, that's fine, you can use paypal for venmo or at worst don't ask for a deposit. It seems, no matter what option I present, nothing will work other than you want to be able to ask for a deposit without any restrictions but hopefully you understand that's exactly how scammers operate.

You already have a badge and some posts, so you can ask for a deposit, just list it in your listing and the buyer can decide. This is realistically for newer accounts or accounts that have no history requesting deposits. I know you're looking at it from a very specific scenario, but these rules are meant for the thousands of people interacting daily. We have 10k members who are actively visiting the site monthly with 22k total registered members, This is an extremely high DAU for the member base.

The +13 flair and GAFS reference is from the reddit marketplace that has ~250k members and is one of the most active marketplaces for 2A on the net. They require Paypal G&S for all new users. Where you think paypal is anti-2A is outdated in the sense that people 2A people don't use it. It's the previous generation from 2000's. There is a flair system like our feedback system but we take it a step further.

This site is the adaptation of Reddit, CGN, and FB Marketplace with my own twist to bring trust back to transactions. All the marketplaces listed all had a lot of issues with scams. We also do from time to time, but try to limit the issues to "not as described". This is also the goal for ArmoryHQ for non-firearm related things because i think the used market is going to be a thing as inflation continues higher and prices rise. Theres a need for sites with second life goods for specific communities. These days I've seen a lot move to fora and fb marketplace but I think for this niche this system works.

I don't look at your one off as a negative. I think it helps me try to think of alternative methods so that theres a balance and no one puts too much at risk.

Reddit - Prove your humanity

www.reddit.com

And yes, we're just one of many options which I will repeat is a good thing. There's a growing interest in 2A. A lot of people are pessamistic, but I think once things settle there will be another boom period

 

[ikeo1]

Some of us know too much about (a) how crypto works, and (b) how it is commonly used. And will therefore never touch anything that involves crypto coins or blockchain with a 100-foot pole. Except to write academic papers about it and get patents on it.

Serious: I hold some patents on crypto technology. I have never bought a single coin of any kind, and never will. I trust my bank (or credit union) somewhat; I don't trust many other people. I think all my recent gun sales used little green pieces of paper as a form of payment in face-to-face transactions.

I think in the future the little green paper is going to be less and less circulation in favor of digital wallets. I’ve seen it while traveling and as things get pricier the backends move to blockchain.

These will likely be stable coins

Resistance is futile.

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

Plenty_pack has an issue with reading comprehension. He's talking about buyers getting scammed over too good of a deal in a retort to my comment about sellers being out time and fuel because of buyers no-showing. I'm not talking about scams at all, I'm talking about wasted time and fuel. It's an hour drive for me to go to the nearest FFL. If I, as a seller, have someone no-show, I'm out at LEAST 30 bucks in fuel and 2 hours of time, plus whatever time I wait around hoping they show up. I rarely bother even trying to sell things under $500 anymore because it isn't worth the time to drive to a local shop to initiate a transfer.

Hell, maybe there could be a group-funded "insurance" type thing. Buyer sends a ten or twenty dollar deposit and if they get scammed by a scammy bag seller, they get reimbursed their cup of coffee by the fund. I'd contribute to that to minimize losses by honest folks. Everyone that's going to use marketplace kicks in a buck or three that sits in a pool to make victims of scams whole again.

No. I don't have a reading comprehension problem. You are just a crappy user of the English language.

 

[pikachu]

No. I don't have a reading comprehension problem. You are just a crappy user of the English language.

 

[sirdutch]

Okay. I've read the entire thing about paying deposits. Can I move on? I'm not going to purchase anything.

 

[ikeo1]

Okay. I've read the entire thing about paying deposits. Can I move on? I'm not going to purchase anything.

Yes sure.. you could've just read the first post and Click the X to close.

Thanks for taking the time to read!

 

[echo1]

If that’s going to stop you, you don’t really want to sell it. Life is telling you to keep it and never sell.

BS, we're not to have principals? PayPal sucks balls and I won't use them.
On another note, I'm in NorKal, if a fella in Sokal wants a rig, and I tell him I'll meet him in Bakersfield for X ducats up front is that going to get me banned? PAX

 

[ikeo1]

BS, we're not to have principals? PayPal sucks balls and I won't use them.
On another note, I'm in NorKal, if a fella in Sokal wants a rig, and I tell him I'll meet him in Bakersfield for X ducats up front is that going to get me banned? PAX

What method would you have them use? Are you saying you ONLY accept Zelle or CashApp?

Scammers have the same principles, how would you resolve that? I’ve offered a number of different alternatives to prevent people from being scammed.

Is that BS?

Please read the different options carefully.

Paypal
Venmo
Deposit fund
Badges
Multiple feedback

If ONLY Zelle or CashApp is your ONLY option when I’ve offered more than one, I don’t know what to tell you. If you have any ideas how to prevent scams I’m all ears. I know it was very prevalent on CGN.

 

[gorgothmog]

To play devils advocate here, I’ve read multiple stories of traders with very high flair on GAFS for whatever reason break bad and scam people out of hundreds or thousands of dollars.

It could be their accounts were hacked, or they just went rogue and cashed out… online transactions with strangers that require trust inherently carry some risk.

Barring the risks of violent crime,
face to face with cold hard cash seems the ‘safest’ trust-less method of trans

%%%%%% Cash is the only way to do it. No trail, zero trust, and straight to the bank for a deposit.

 

[echo1]

Cash is the best but involves a high degree of trust from an unknown buyer, which is a sticky wicket these days. In the past I've always bought with cash from folks I'd not actually met, Now I use USPS money order as a buyer and seller. There's a minor modicum of safety net with fraud investigation. I haven't done it, but the 3rd party that holds the weapon until the funds are transferred is an option. Since we're in a 10 day wait state, I offer to deliver to the buyers FFL for, gas money up front, to accommodate the 2 trip mode. I'll go as far as 200/300 miles for the buyer. Does that constitute a deposit? I was just curious. Anyway, for myself I'm mostly out of the seller game having thinned out my collection substantially since 2021-2022 an only need a couple FN49s to complete my needs. PAX

 

[H. Bowman]

I don't get why venmo is fine but zelle is not. That makes zero sense.

I don't recall seeing many scams on cgn. They happened but they weren't "very prevalent", as you say ikeo.

 

[H. Bowman]

Also, all of this wasnt a problem until I decided to move to BFE where it's an hour+ drive to the nearest FFL. So it's kind of my own fault. But it's still better here, where I can shoot at night off my own patio.

 

[BobGBA]

I'm not a scammer (I know what you're thinking - sure, that's just what a scammer would say).

Why not just let the folks here look out for themselves?

I've never asked for a deposit and prefer to use an FFL that's local to me.
I typically like to have a couple of verbal conversations with a buyer to see if we're on the same page.
If something seems off (I once had a potential buyer tell me we don't need to use an FFL), I'll decline to do business with them.

If a buyer asks me to travel farther than I want to and I ask for a non refundable cash deposit (to cover my time/expenses, in case I get ghosted), I'd like to be able to choose the method of payment that I like, not one from a list of methods that I don't use.

An alternative would be for me to say:
Your offer to me does not agree with the T&C (terms and conditions) of my ad, so for me to meet you at your FFL means I have to raise the price of my widget by 10%.
Would I then get in trouble with the site, for raising my price?

• Personally, all the rules that are put in place to protect us from one another feel like a thorn in my back that I can't remove.
• I'd rather just rely on myself (not that I can't be fooled ) to protect myself.
• The State tries to protect us from ourselves and overburdens/restricts the vast majority to protect the few.