If RAWs were transferable, what do you think sellers would charge?

[ocabj]

There is no such thing as an assault weapon. Stop using the language of those who want to take our rights away. SCOTUS needs to get off its collective butt and send a clear message that “shall not be infringed” means what it says.

It's literally a term used in the CA penal code. We have to use it. You can't not use this term when discussing the legality of a specific firearm in this state.

 

[Toshiro Mifune]

Ok. What did I miss? What is happening in May?

 

[MattB]

It's literally a term used in the CA penal code. We have to use it. You can't not use this term when discussing the legality of a specific firearm in this state.

We literally don’t have to use their language. Their language is unjust, unconstitutional, and I for one will not lend it any credibility.

 

[five.five-six]

It's a bullet button Registered Assault Weapon.

please cite the PC.

 

[BONECUTR]

please cite the PC.

30900.​

(a) (1) Any person who, prior to June 1, 1989, lawfully possessed an assault weapon, as defined in former Section 12276, as added by Section 3 of Chapter 19 of the Statutes of 1989, shall register the firearm by January 1, 1991, and any person who lawfully possessed an assault weapon prior to the date it was specified as an assault weapon pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as added by Section 3 of Chapter 19 of the Statutes of 1989 or as amended by Section 1 of Chapter 874 of the Statutes of 1990 or Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of 1991, shall register the firearm within 90 days with the Department of Justice pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish.
(2) Except as provided in Section 30600, any person who lawfully possessed an assault weapon prior to the date it was defined as an assault weapon pursuant to former Section 12276.1, as it read in Section 7 of Chapter 129 of the Statutes of 1999, and which was not specified as an assault weapon under former Section 12276, as added by Section 3 of Chapter 19 of the Statutes of 1989 or as amended at any time before January 1, 2001, or former Section 12276.5, as added by Section 3 of Chapter 19 of the Statutes of 1989 or as amended at any time before January 1, 2001, shall register the firearm by January 1, 2001, with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish.
(3) The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of birth, and thumbprint of the owner, and any other information that the department may deem appropriate.
(4) The department may charge a fee for registration of up to twenty dollars ($20) per person but not to exceed the reasonable processing costs of the department. After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the department for processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a rate not to exceed the legislatively approved annual cost-of-living adjustment for the department’s budget or as otherwise increased through the Budget Act but not to exceed the reasonable costs of the department. The fees shall be deposited into the Dealers’ Record of Sale Special Account.

Normal AW PC ^^^^

(b) (1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before January 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5).
(2) Registrations shall be submitted electronically via the Internet utilizing a public-facing application made available by the department.
(3) The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the date the firearm was acquired, the name and address of the individual from whom, or business from which, the firearm was acquired, as well as the registrant’s full name, address, telephone number, date of birth, sex, height, weight, eye color, hair color, and California driver’s license number or California identification card number.
(4) The department may charge a fee in an amount of up to fifteen dollars ($15) per person but not to exceed the reasonable processing costs of the department. The fee shall be paid by debit or credit card at the time that the electronic registration is submitted to the department. The fee shall be deposited in the Dealers’ Record of Sale Special Account to be used for purposes of this section.
(5) The department shall adopt regulations for the purpose of implementing this subdivision. These regulations are exempt from the Administrative Procedure Act (Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 11340) of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of the Government Code).

Bullet Button AW PC ^^^^

Section 5 gives them the ability to add regulations to implement this which they did in the CCR that defines all the "features and terms" included the part that you can't remove the bullet button style device.

To add more context CRPA sued CADOJ over this and other issues: https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Villanueva-v.-Becerra-Complaint.pdf and they lost.

EIGHTH CAUSE OF ACTIONFOR DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEFDeclaration re Validity of Cal. Code Regs., tit. 11, § 5477 —Post-Registration Restrictions(Gov. Code, § 11350)(By All Plaintiffs Against All Defendants)167. Plaintiffs incorporate by reference the allegations in the above paragraphs asthough fully set forth herein.168. 11 CCR section 5477 prohibits the removal of the “release mechanism for anammunition feeding device on an assault weapon pursuant to Penal Code section 30900(b)(1) . . .after the assault weapon is registered.” This seems to prohibit removal of the magazine lock(e.g., “bullet button”) from a firearm once it is registered. Such a regulation is illegal on twogrounds.37COMPLAINT FOR DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF12345678910111213141516171819202122232425262728A. The Regulation is Outside the Scope of DOJ’s APA Exemption169. Defendant DOJ’s exemption from the APA is limited to those regulationsimplementing

 

[Gawernator]

What if you leave the raddlock bullet button on the BB RAW and you just unscrew the screw a few times? It’s the exact same bullet button it was registered with, never removed, with a loosened screw. That’s how stupid their BB regulations are…

I wondered this too since my RAW Sig M400 has a Raddlock, hah

 

[Gawernator]

The issue is that the regulation you listed is for the "process of registration" and has no Penal Code support to exist outside of the registration process.
Regulations are to clarify Penal Code.
Penal Codes are arrestable.
There is no actual Penal Code requiring the maintaining of bullet buttons that you can be arrested for.

So if you get pulled over on the side of the road, the LEO can not charge you with removing a bullet button.
Nor can you be charged with possession of an unregistered assault weapon if your assault weapon is registered because registered assault weapons are specifically exempted from the features list.

Can anyone verify if this is true or just internet-lawyer theory? Interesting

 

[BONECUTR]

Can anyone verify if this is true or just internet-lawyer theory? Interesting

If it were true I would guess the CRPA wouldn’t of sued and lost trying to get the CCR removed since it’s clearly another CADOJ underground regulation.

I have yet to see one legal opinion that reflects that.

 

[Gawernator]

If it were true I would guess the CRPA wouldn’t of sued and lost trying to get the CCR removed since it’s clearly another CADOJ underground regulation.

I have yet to see one legal opinion that reflects that.

I put it into ChatGPT thinking mode and it said that by the CA regulations any change to the firearm makes it not the firearm that was registered, so technically would be illegal

 

[AR15barrels]

Ok. What did I miss? What is happening in May?

In May of 1986, it became illegal to NFA register machineguns.
There are machineguns that were in dealer inventory that are still transferrable between FFL's and SOT's because they existed before May of 1986.

 

[sugarfoot57]

I think that tomorrow is the 40th anniversary of the Firearm Owner's "Protection" Act. Signed in by a Republican president.

 

[Gawernator]

I think that tomorrow is the 40th anniversary of the Firearm Owner's "Protection" Act. Signed in by a Republic president.

Reagan was very anti-gun. Californian after all. The Republican label doesn't mean much

 

[sugarfoot57]

Exactly. Bush senior signed in the AW importation ban in 1989. Effectively wiped out the HK 90 series rifles ( amongst many other brands )which were their main imports for the American civilian market. Remember the old saying started by gun enthusiasts that HK was basically telling us "you suck and we hate you"? Could you really blame them at the time?

 

[Skilly]

IANAL but CCR directly outlines many firearm regulations that will determine if laws are broken. Just like how CADOJ seized Canniks and P211 GTO's.

What are the reported cases of a P211 GTO being seized? Is there something new you can point to? Outside of a thread here referencing a conversation that compelled a dealer to do a voluntary re-purchase, there is nothing available.

 

[Gawernator]

What are the reported cases of a P211 GTO being seized? Is there something new you can point to? Outside of a thread here referencing a conversation that compelled a dealer to do a voluntary re-purchase, there is nothing available.

There are none. I didn't see any proof of the buyback either, just random reddit comment

 

[shooter556]

I had a Bushmaster RAW from 1999 that I turned in (Stripped) lower only for destruction years ago.

They are a PITA if you follow rules/regs regarding transporting, storing, loss/theft, etc. wasn’t a big deal to me, not worth carrying registering paperwork and still having Karen’s bugging you when you just want to shoot.

It got old fast. Plus, I had legal access to the real deal at the time through employment.

Whats so complicated about transporting? From my understanding, has to be locked and transported from point A to point B where at both points it must be legal to possess. So from your house directly to the range. That is what I typically do anyways for range days. Storing it? Just put it in a safe that only YOU can access. Loss/theft? How is it any different than any other firearm you own? Even a single action .22lr must be reported within 48 hours I believe?

I wish I could have a legal RAW from 1999, it is just about the only way someone could legally have a normal functioning AK/AR in this state.

 

[BONECUTR]

What are the reported cases of a P211 GTO being seized? Is there something new you can point to? Outside of a thread here referencing a conversation that compelled a dealer to do a voluntary re-purchase, there is nothing available.

There are none. I didn't see any proof of the buyback either, just random reddit comment

Route 66 Scott opening admitted that during the DOJ audit they were forced to contact LEO's they sold them two and request they return them.

This has happened multiple times since I've been in the industry with lots of different firearms that dealers should not of been selling.

Colt 1911's sold as C&R's that were not. Walther P22's with threaded barrels are just a few that come to mind.

Not sure what "proof" you guys are looking for. I only know of one dealer who was arrested for having a threaded barrel handgun (22lr) as a rental firearm at his range and he did not have a AW permit. There are not really any press releases about these incidents.

 

[Skilly]

Route 66 Scott opening admitted that during the DOJ audit they were forced to contact LEO's they sold them two and request they return them.

This has happened multiple times since I've been in the industry with lots of different firearms that dealers should not of been selling.

Colt 1911's sold as C&R's that were not. Walther P22's with threaded barrels are just a few that come to mind.

Not sure what "proof" you guys are looking for. I only know of one dealer who was arrested for having a threaded barrel handgun (22lr) as a rental firearm at his range and he did not have a AW permit. There are not really any press releases about these incidents.

You used the term "seized" and included it very specifically with the Cannik TTI Combat. Im not debating the definition of a threaded barrel but I disagree with conflating the two examples as being the same.

 

[BONECUTR]

You used the term "seized" and included it very specifically with the Cannik TTI Combat. Im not debating the definition of a threaded barrel but I disagree with conflating the two examples as being the same.

Not sure what you are saying here. Im not the FFL that said they had the TTI's seized. But I know of multiple incidents where FFL's have had inventory seized by the CADOJ but Im not going to out them publicly. In some instances the inventory was legal but the CADOJ still took it and the dealer is still trying to get it back.

I personally don't think the Cannik TTI meets the definition of threaded or lugged but I won't sell them without an AW letter.

 

[Skilly]

Not sure what you are saying here. Im not the FFL that said they had the TTI's seized. But I know of multiple incidents where FFL's have had inventory seized by the CADOJ but Im not going to out them publicly. In some instances the inventory was legal but the CADOJ still took it and the dealer is still trying to get it back.

I personally don't think the Cannik TTI meets the definition of threaded or lugged but I won't sell them without an AW letter.

do you have examples of P211 GTO's being seized? That was what I was asking.