If a C&R could talk

[C&RTrader]

This sub forum is pretty quiet, so if a C&R could talk what stories would it have to share?

1944 production walther p38. Late in the war, things probably aren't going well for the guy this was issued to.
Later at some point it was "transferred" to a John Karr from Tulsa Oklahoma who etched his name, hometown perhaps, and tried to draw an eagle maybe.

I did find a record of a John Karr from Tulsa who served in the war. The obituary isnt online anymore but I recall he may have been a doctor or other medical provider.

No import marks. I am sure this one would have a few stories.

Got a C&R that probably has a good story? Give it a share, lets liven up this sub forum.

P38 is not for sale. Please dont ask.

 

[Gawernator]

Very cool history

 

[MattB]

Let’s continue with P38-type pistols.


This is my Walther P4. It’s a nice shooter and handles 124 grain 9mm well. Note that the name “Walther” does not appear on the slide. This pistol was assembled by Manurhin for West Berlin police. Various post-war treaties prohibited West Berlin from using German-made weapons, so the solution was to have P1s and a small number (~225 from the figures I’ve found) of P4s made in France. The P1s were issued to uniformed officers, while sources seem to vary on the issuance of the P4. I’ve read that mounted units and SEK (SWAT) used them and also that plainclothes detectives carried them. From what I’ve read the P4s were not up to the rigor of SEK use.

They were later traded to Sig Sauer as part of the purchase of then-new P6s (interestingly none of the Berlin P6s seem to have hit the used market in the US since Berlin retained them longer than other jurisdictions but that’s another discussion) and made their way to the US. I know my pistol is one of the West Berlin units because of the Manurhin roll marks and the West Berlin emblem on the trigger guard, but this pistol’s actual service history during the 1970s is almost certainly inaccessible since it is highly unlikely that Berlin police would provide any records that they have assuming they even still exist. Though if any country would still have records of police pistols from the 1970s it would be Germany.

 

[echo1]

Carnage, mayhem and death.
I have my dad's Bolo that he dispatched many a Japanese Imperial solders. The Bolo was the preferred Filipino method to terminate the enemy. PAX

 

[PlinkyDinky]

"Gee, it's awfully dark and stuffy in here..."

 

[C&RTrader]

Let’s continue with P38-type pistols.

This is my Walther P4. It’s a nice shooter and handles 124 grain 9mm well. Note that the name “Walther” does not appear on the slide. This pistol was assembled by Manurhin for West Berlin police. Various post-war treaties prohibited West Berlin from using German-made weapons, so the solution was to have P1s and a small number (~225 from the figures I’ve found) of P4s made in France. The P1s were issued to uniformed officers, while sources seem to vary on the issuance of the P4. I’ve read that mounted units and SEK (SWAT) used them and also that plainclothes detectives carried them. From what I’ve read the P4s were not up to the rigor of SEK use.

They were later traded to Sig Sauer as part of the purchase of then-new P6s (interestingly none of the Berlin P6s seem to have hit the used market in the US since Berlin retained them longer than other jurisdictions but that’s another discussion) and made their way to the US. I know my pistol is one of the West Berlin units because of the Manurhin roll marks and the West Berlin emblem on the trigger guard, but this pistol’s actual service history during the 1970s is almost certainly inaccessible since it is highly unlikely that Berlin police would provide any records that they have assuming they even still exist. Though if any country would still have records of police pistols from the 1970s it would be Germany.

Very cool. I dont think i have seen a P4 in person. are there any real differences? Looks like the barrel is a lot shorter? Nice wood grips on that too.

 

[C&RTrader]

Carnage, mayhem and death.
I have my dad's Bolo that he dispatched many a Japanese Imperial solders. The Bolo was the preferred Filipino method to terminate the enemy. PAX

Brutal. I remember reading a story about a female schoolteacher turned Guerilla fighter who was pretty gnarly with one of those.

 

[OmOpLaTa]

"Get this nasty a$$ cosmoline off me"

 

[echo1]

Brutal. I remember reading a story about a female schoolteacher turned Guerilla fighter who was pretty gnarly with one of those.

My Pops Bolo under the top Arisaka T38. He was a Staff Sergent in charge of 2 rifle squads in support of 2 water-cooled Browning's.
My uncle Al's captured T38, 3rd one down. He liberated it when they came ashore on New Guniea. Uncle Al was an Almo scout. He and 2 other Pinoys could speak Japanese when no Filipinos could. The 3 were snuck ashore by sub on Leyte, where the locals arranged for them to be severs in the Jap officers mess. The intel they gathered was vital to the invasion. Both he, my dad, other uncles were in the 1st Filipino regiment
PAX

 

[MattB]

Very cool. I dont think i have seen a P4 in person. are there any real differences? Looks like the barrel is a lot shorter? Nice wood grips on that too.

Thanks. You can think of the P4 as the “Commander” version of the P38. The barrel is 4.3” compared to the P38/P1’s 5”. The P4 also incorporates all of the P1 design improvements including the thicker slide and frame hex bolt to prevent cracking, and it also eliminates some of the design weaknesses of the P38 such as the slide top plate. It also is decock-only using an interesting design that moves the firing pin out of line with the hammer, though according to one account I’ve read the system is not robust. The grips are Nill wood grips and not original to the gun, but I think they dress it up nicely. It feeds 115 and 124 grain JHPs without issue, but I wouldn’t run 147s through a P38-type pistol. Not a gun I’d ever carry but it would work if it were all I had. I regard mine as a bit of a BBQ gun, an interesting and unusual firearm with an interesting history.