CCW News Government shutdown putting gun owners rights at risk, Republicans warn

[ikeo1]

Do your math with after tax dollars!

that’s brutal as a sole prop with a family. That’s the thing though, if you can’t afford it no one can. I can your understand your frustration. I have the same kind of frustration considering mine is going up. What can you do. No matter who you choose they’re gonna spend your $$ on their friends

 

[Dohboy]

naive question here. So you don't have insurance and you have a health issue - is the answer that you have to go to ER for care if it gets to that point, which can't be refused but you get some crazy bill? I'm just a worker bee and having health benefits was always just assumed.

 

[star.3d]

naive question here.

Personally, I would try to avoid a non-covered bill (i.e. one that's not negotiated by an insurer and so may be super expensive)... I think you're better off on getting on health insurance and receiving some sort of preventative care. The ER may be okay for a broken arm, but it's not effective for managing diabetes or high blood pressure. If you're near the federal poverty line, Medi-Cal is likely free. ACA (Covered CA) plans are the next cheapest option, and HMO plans (e.g. Kaiser) will be more affordable. An employer group plan (if available) is often a very good option even if you still have to pay some or all of the premium - the reason being that your employer can usually negotiate better insurance rates.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Our family income is above that yet still feel financially poor, and no group plan because both my wife and I are sole proprietors.

I get it, I'm in the same bracket and I don't feel rich at all. That said, the numbers I posted before are real and the bronze plan for a family of 4 is like 800 bucks without subsidy. I don't really care if you have insurance or not but what the GOP are trying to do is make it even worse. Eventually you will get old enough and you will have to have insurance because you will have health issues to deal with. The median income in CA is 75k, and that's family not individual. So 50% of the state is making less than that. There's no reason to make healthcare out of reach for those people, or even people in your income level.

 

[NorCalBusa]

The other reality it that if someone does not have health insurance, an emergency department cannot deny them care and those costs are passed onto insurance plans. Or when they're older and Medicare has to pick up the pieces from a life of deferred healthcare, we the taxpayers foot the bill for more intensive care. So feigning the unaffordability of health insurance is a non-sequitur. Those who do not have health insurance burden those of us who do - which is why we need universal healthcare.

The government will still charge us the same taxes, but by cutting healthcare (or any other social services for that matter) we'll get less in return... doesn't sound like a good deal to me. If you already accept the mortgage interest tax credit, why not accept a tax credit in your healthcare too?

Oh I think the cost is "passed" over to a collection agency. Of course, they may not get anywhere- but they'll sure try.

 

[ikeo1]

I get it, I'm in the same bracket and I don't feel rich at all. That said, the numbers I posted before are real and the bronze plan for a family of 4 is like 800 bucks without subsidy. I don't really care if you have insurance or not but what the GOP are trying to do is make it even worse. Eventually you will get old enough and you will have to have insurance because you will have health issues to deal with. The median income in CA is 75k, and that's family not individual. So 50% of the state is making less than that. There's no reason to make healthcare out of reach for those people, or even people in your income level.

It’s not $800 but it will get worse, not better.

People might have to suffer to prove a point. That’s just the way it goes until it’s too much. Until then we wait for everything to open back up

 

[Smittty]

This is pretty much a fact.. if it didn’t go down, then people wouldn’t have been covered. Same thing that’s happening right now.

As a small business owner my rate is set to double. It has nothing to do with illegal immigrants, that is a lie and not one person can find the provision where it says immigrants are allowed. If they were they’d be paying into a system where they would be captured and deported as soon as they stepped in the hospital. It actually helps ICE as illegal immigrant gathering centers if it were true and they’d pay into the system.

This affects so many more regular Americans like myself than immigrants. It’s frustrating that this is the number one reason the GOP uses but no one will verify or actually validate it. It’s not hard these days with AI to scan the bill and ask it whether or not it includes it.

I hope they decide to actually govern soon and open up. We could be making progress on so many fronts..

I’ll lose some of the benefits. it’s also my tax dollars too, not just yours and I say pay for it because we pay for our own and can also help Americans. Someone else always pays or helps one another for a community to prosper. Without it individuals prosper and there is no community or society at large.

But I do agree that people should also help themselves. The problem is government is in the pocket of corporate healthcare. US agriculture and food supply is not good for the average citizen. I also agree there’s a lack of personal accountability, but as a whole it’s better for society for its citizens to have affordable healthcare. The main issue is their cutting $1.5 trillion in healthcare to Americans to fund $1.25 trillion in tax cuts to the top tier. Our deficit increased to $38 trillion an increase of ~$2 trillion since the beginning of the year. We really need a systemic change.

If we really wanted to fix or address healthcare, we’d have to take a serious look at food supply. Kids with diabetes is on the rise it’s crazy. Life expectancy is down, we have to really look at the problems. These days I walk/run/jog/lift 5 days a week still gonna have to pay double.

This is an example of priority politics. What means more to you is how you’ll be outraged. Both sides are not wrong it just depends what’s more important to you. But factually, illegal immigrants are a red herring.

I get it, I'm in the same bracket and I don't feel rich at all. That said, the numbers I posted before are real and the bronze plan for a family of 4 is like 800 bucks without subsidy. I don't really care if you have insurance or not but what the GOP are trying to do is make it even worse. Eventually you will get old enough and you will have to have insurance because you will have health issues to deal with. The median income in CA is 75k, and that's family not individual. So 50% of the state is making less than that. There's no reason to make healthcare out of reach for those people, or even people in your income level.

Turns out we're now going to be paying everyone else's tuition. I voted specifically so I don't have to pay for everyone else failures! Trump's done a full 180 deg on us.

I saw this headline on Newsmax this norming!

 

[Smittty]

naive question here. So you don't have insurance and you have a health issue - is the answer that you have to go to ER for care if it gets to that point, which can't be refused but you get some crazy bill? I'm just a worker bee and having health benefits was always just assumed.

I don' have health issues and that's because I take care of myself. Being unhealthy is not an option.

 

[star.3d]

But how can you know your blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar, and heart health are normal if you never see a doctor? All of these are silent killers - you won't know until you're 60+ and have kidney failure or a stroke. And if your family has a history of high BP or cholesterol, all the more reason. Same goes for dental care. Little known is that poor dental hygiene can cause dementia later in life.

We make money to buy the things we need. Healthcare is about as close to buying 'time' as it gets. I'd really encourage you to get your kids on it - and ideally yourself as well.

 

[star.3d]

Oh I think the cost is "passed" over to a collection agency. Of course, they may not get anywhere- but they'll sure try.

Exactly. So the hospital spent the money caring for an uninsured ER patient, but they still need to make money to operate. And so they raise the cost of care for people who have health insurance.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

It’s not $800 but it will get worse, not better.

People might have to suffer to prove a point. That’s just the way it goes until it’s too much. Until then we wait for everything to open back up

I messed up the calculator, 800 is for two adults on the bronze plan with no subsidy, it's 1000 for the silver with no subsidy for 2 adults no kids.

 

[ikeo1]

Exactly. So the hospital spent the money caring for an uninsured ER patient, but they still need to make money to operate. And so they raise the cost of care for people who have health insurance.

it’s a systemic issue.

Healthcare isn’t as expensive elsewhere. It’s as dysfunctional as our government.

These big conglomerates / entities forgot who they serve.

We’re kinda getting off track.

 

[ikeo1]

I messed up the calculator, 800 is for two adults on the bronze plan with no subsidy, it's 1000 for the silver with no subsidy for 2 adults no kids.

I’m going to assume he’s done his research but I would think the cost is about $2000 for 4 on bronze

Turns out we're now going to be paying everyone else's tuition. I voted specifically so I don't have to pay for everyone else failures! Trump's done a full 180 deg on us.

I saw this headline on Newsmax this norming!

View attachment 105084

it happens.

We’re all in it together in the end

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Turns out we're now going to be paying everyone else's tuition. I voted specifically so I don't have to pay for everyone else failures! Trump's done a full 180 deg on us.

I saw this headline on Newsmax this norming!

View attachment 105084

The thing is that judging from your comments you are a small business owner/contractor. This puts money into the economy to spend at your business. You will not lose money from this or other government spending, that's not how it works. Gov spending is stimulating to the economy. Obviously there's a limit but the concept is simple, people with 500 extra dollars a month to spend can now spend it in the economy rather than to the bank where it goes to the yacht fund.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I’m going to assume he’s done his research but I would think the cost is about $2000 for 4 on bronze

it happens.

We’re all in it together in the end

1600 for 4 on bronze. Obviously a lot of freaking money but it's half of what was stated initially at 3500 plus a big deductible. 1800 a month is the absolutely out of pocket maximum for a family so that includes deductibles etc. It can't legally be higher than that for a family.

 

[star.3d]

it’s a systemic issue.

I'm biased. I work in it, and I'm a caregiver for a family member with a lifetime of deferred health issues... They thought they were too poor to afford healthcare their whole life, and now they've got a huge pile of money in the bank and days or weeks to live. That's not the way. We shouldn't let the gov't trick us into believing we should give up whatever healthcare we've got in order to "pay down" the national debt (because it ain't getting paid down - as we've discussed at length in other threads). It doesn't matter if we feel rich, it matters what we do with our money... and skimping on healthcare isn't smart spending, imo.

I'll add... a 3 day hospital stay this month begot a bill for $218,000. The easiest way to protect against that bill is with health insurance.

 

[Smittty]

I'm biased. I work in it, and I'm a caregiver for a family member with a lifetime of deferred health issues... They thought they were too poor to afford healthcare their whole life, and now they've got a huge pile of money in the bank and days or weeks to live. That's not the way. We shouldn't let the gov't trick us into believing we should give up whatever healthcare we've got in order to "pay down" the national debt (because it ain't getting paid down - as we've discussed at length in other threads). It doesn't matter if we feel rich, it matters what we do with our money... and skimping on healthcare isn't smart spending, imo.

I'll add... a 3 day hospital stay this month begot a bill for $218,000. The easiest way to protect against that bill is with health insurance.

No one on this planet can justify $73,000 per day stay.

There are a few things to know when you don't have insurance.
- you don't half hazardly call 911
- don't get into an ambulance
- don't go thru the emergency entrance

You know when it's life or death and most calls are not emergency, most ambulance trips are unnecessary.

1/2 mile trip in an ambulance is a $7,500 insurance bill. My friends learned this the hard way.

Instead, go to urgent care/med center and your first words are I'm paying cash.

 

[star.3d]

Exactly, the health insurance plan will negotiate that bill - not me.

If you go to urgent care with heart attack symptoms, they literally send you to the ER. Urgent care doesn't do troponin/CPK-MB monitoring, they're not equipped for it. We went to the ER because of shortness of breath at 10pm, and they admitted my family member for 3 days. That's how it goes.

 

[couragewolf]

Who will lose healthcare benefits? If I'm paying for someone else's healthcare, then absolutely shut if off!

I do not have my own health insurance because it's stupid expensive I sure as heck don't want my tax dollars covering someone els

I don't want to pay for everyone elses crime response services, fire protections, or national defense either let's set higher goal posts

 

[couragewolf]

No one on this planet can justify $73,000 per day stay.

There are a few things to know when you don't have insurance.
- you don't half hazardly call 911
- don't get into an ambulance
- don't go thru the emergency entrance

You know when it's life or death and most calls are not emergency, most ambulance trips are unnecessary.

1/2 mile trip in an ambulance is a $7,500 insurance bill. My friends learned this the hard way.

Instead, go to urgent care/med center and your first words are I'm paying cash.

All I'm saying is you don't buy health insurance for the expected issues. One day you're perfectly healthy have great cholesterol and fitness and the world is your oyster, the next you've got a $300,000 bill for a dozen cat scans and arterial explorations.

Good health and good life insurance are the two bullwarks of a financial net worth self defense plan that make or break the retention of someone's assets throughout the length of their life.

Note: If we just socialized our medical entirely it would drop about 1/3 in cost due to completely negating the entire insurance industry. Private healthcare is a scam it's actually just an insurance industry jobs program and everyone is too afraid to admit it.

You can experience a life altering completely unavoidable unpredictable health event which turns out either:
- costing your insurance company several multiples what you've paid into insurance over the course of your life.
- bankrupting you and saddling your children with a permanent unpayable debt that will follow them well into their adult lives.

You're paying a monthly fee to choose that outcome, and by not paying the fee you're taking a losing roll of the dice that somehow you won't have such a health issue. Turns out most of us are all still made of meat.