Familial transfer question

[SlayingMantis]

Can any of the undercover DOJ/ATF agents that are lurking here please chime in?

 

[Skilly]

Nope. You can buy a firearm intended as a gift for someone and fill out the paperwork and it isn't a straw purchase. Read the instructions on the 4473.

yeah, makes sense, I was confusing some of the elements of what makes a straw purchase. If its truly a gift and the buyer isnt being reimbursed by the receiving family member, its not a straw purchase. Makes complete sense.

Now I just need to look at my family tree for a generous family member

 

[AR15barrels]

Now I just need to look at my family tree for a generous family member

The person needs to be your direct bloodline relative.
So your birth mother, birth father or child of your seed.
Aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers/sisters or nieces/nephews do not work.

 

[Constitutional Armory]

The person needs to be your direct bloodline relative.
So your birth mother, birth father or child of your seed.
Aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers/sisters or nieces/nephews do not work.

Adopted also is valid. Not sure about wife or husband

 

[AR15barrels]

Adopted also is valid.

I had not heard that but I believe it's the FOPA that defines the federal direct bloodline exemption for firearms transfers that all the state laws are usually based upon because it's a federally required/protected right.

Not sure about wife or husband

Wife/husband transfers are a different thing that's protected under joint property rights laws but I don't know if that is also in FOPA.

 

[Skilly]

The person needs to be your direct bloodline relative.
So your birth mother, birth father or child of your seed.
Aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers/sisters or nieces/nephews do not work.

nope. Does not stipulate that at all so it covers biological, birth, adoptive, step, legal. Here is the exact language:

California Penal Code § 16720
"As used in this part, 'immediate family member' means either of the following relationships:

(a) Parent and child
(b) Grandparent and grandchild.

 

[AR15barrels]

nope. Does not stipulate that at all so it covers biological, birth, adoptive, step, legal. Here is the exact language:

California Penal Code § 16720
"As used in this part, 'immediate family member' means either of the following relationships:

(a) Parent and child
(b) Grandparent and grandchild.

That's the way it was always explained to me.
I believe it's in the FOPA.

 

[kemasa]

nope. Does not stipulate that at all so it covers biological, birth, adoptive, step, legal. Here is the exact language:

California Penal Code § 16720
"As used in this part, 'immediate family member' means either of the following relationships:

(a) Parent and child
(b) Grandparent and grandchild.

Step child doesn't count unless adopted.

 

[kemasa]

Can any of the undercover DOJ/ATF agents that are lurking here please chime in?

Nope, they are prohibited from doing so. I was told that from a BATF employee.

 

[Constitutional Armory]

That's the way it was always explained to me.
I believe it's in the FOPA.

Don't believe it included step

 

[Skilly]

Step child doesn't count unless adopted.

What are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense. If I marry and the mother has a previous child, I am the step father. What scenario would there be a requirement of adoption for that child not be part of my responsibility? The law certainly sees a parent/child relationship.

Did you come from a broken home and a step father that wouldn't admit they were a part of your family? lol. Please point to the law you are referencing that excludes that parent/child relationship...

 

[Skilly]

That's the way it was always explained to me.
I believe it's in the FOPA.

Wait, are you referring to the Firearm Owners' Protection Act?

Outside of transport, what are you saying FOPA covers with these types of transfers?

 

[Constitutional Armory]

What are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense. If I marry and the mother has a previous child, I am the step father. What scenario would there be a requirement of adoption for that child not be part of my responsibility? The law certainly sees a parent/child relationship.

Did you come from a broken home and a step father that wouldn't admit they were a part of your family? lol. Please point to the law you are referencing that excludes that parent/child relationship...

The law sees see legal adoption only not by marriage that's still step kid or parent in eyes of law

 

[Skilly]

The law sees see legal adoption only not by marriage that's still step kid or parent in eyes of law

And since the described law doesn't exclude that relationship, it is covered in familial transfers. Its not difficult.

 

[AR15barrels]

Wait, are you referring to the Firearm Owners' Protection Act?

Outside of transport, what are you saying FOPA covers with these types of transfers?

FOPA created the protection of interstate transfers of firearms up and down the family bloodline as act-of-law transfers.
It's the reason CA has to have the intrafamily transfer law on the state books.

 

[Mil-Dot]

For these transfers you dont need to do anything. You can print out a random transfer form to show transfer of ownership and your done. You both sign it and keep a copy. If you really feel the need to tell CA you did it then just go to your cfars account and put in the info and pay the $19.

 

[lactoast]

So to summarize, if you have a qualifying immediate family member residing out of state, they can gift you a firearm after they purchase and take ownership of it as their own, provided that they send it to your FFL within the state with a something like a letter indicating their relation to you and that it is a gift.

You would then go through the same process with your FFL as you would buying a gun (FSC, valid proofs of ID and residency, DROS, 10 day wait, etc).

Hopefully I got that right, it would be nice to settle this all this back and forth debate before our parents pass away from old age

 

[kemasa]

What are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense. If I marry and the mother has a previous child, I am the step father. What scenario would there be a requirement of adoption for that child not be part of my responsibility? The law certainly sees a parent/child relationship.

Did you come from a broken home and a step father that wouldn't admit they were a part of your family? lol. Please point to the law you are referencing that excludes that parent/child relationship...

The step child is NO relation to the step-parent, so it doesn't qualify for the exemption.

In terms of the law, the step-parent isn't responsible for the child, the actual parents are.

Look at the wording of the law, go ask the CA DOJ, a step-child isn't the person's child. It is simple as that. You are also looking at it incorrectly, I don't have to provide anything to show that the step-child is excluded, the reality is that you have to show that a step-child is INCLUDED in the wording of the law, which it doesn't.

Part of the family isn't relevant, only the law is. If one of your siblings had issues and their children came to live with you, they are part of your family, you might treat them like your children, but in terms of the law they are NOT your children and therefore doesn't qualify for the exemption.

Your attempted personal attack is unacceptable. As well, you should speak to a family court judge is regarding your "rights" as a step parent. From the stories I have heard that would be a very interesting lecture towards you by claiming that you had any rights other than what the judge told you to do.

 

[kemasa]

And since the described law doesn't exclude that relationship, it is covered in familial transfers. Its not difficult.

No, because there is no legal relationship and it doesn't specifically include such relationship, it isn't included in the exemption. You are correct, it isn't difficult, at least it shouldn't be.

You want legal advice? Here is a response from an attorney:

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/intrafamilial-transfer-of-firearm-in-california--4895872.html

The transfer of a firearm between a parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement. The exemption does not apply to step-children/step-parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, or cousins.

But wait, there's more, how about directly from the CA DOJ?

Frequently Asked Questions

Public Where do I find laws regarding the possession of firearms? I'm not sure whether I have a California record that would prevent me from owning/possessing a firearm. Is there a way to find out before I attempt to purchase one? What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California? How...

oag.ca.gov

Can I give a firearm to my adult child? Can he/she give it back to me later?

• 
  Yes, as long as the adult child receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category, pdf and the firearm is legal to possess (e.g., not an assault weapon). The transfer of a firearm between a parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement. The exemption does not apply to step-children/step-parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, or cousins.
  
  If the firearm is a handgun, the recipient must obtain a Handgun Safety Certificate prior to taking possession and must also submit a Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction and $19 fee to the DOJ within 30 days after taking possession.
  
  The same rules apply to the return of the firearm at a later date.
  
  (Pen. Code, §§ 27870-27875, 30910-30915.)

So please tell me your basis for claiming that step anything is included in the exemption. A simple search would find what I presented. Asking the CA DOJ would find this result as well. Assumptions are generally a bad way to conduct business when legal aspects are involved.

I suspect that the attorney just copied the response from the CA DOJ, but since it is presented by an attorney, it is still legal advice.

 

[kemasa]

For these transfers you dont need to do anything. You can print out a random transfer form to show transfer of ownership and your done. You both sign it and keep a copy. If you really feel the need to tell CA you did it then just go to your cfars account and put in the info and pay the $19.

No, that is false. The CFARS or the form ISN'T optional, it is required as the exemption as for going through a dealer, which means that the law must be followed and that means reporting.