Familial transfer question

[BONECUTR]

No way to enforce it if true

What part?

 

[WojtekWeaponry]

What part?

The part where someone has to take possession before sending along.

 

[BONECUTR]

The part where someone has to take possession before sending along

I'm sure there are some who feel differently and I'm just giving my opinion.
When someone comes in and buys a firearm it is not thiers to gift until they own it. Paying for something does not make it yours. Possession of it does. IMO

 

[Constitutional Armory]

I'm sure there are some who feel differently and I'm just giving my opinion.
When someone comes in and buys a firearm it is not thiers to gift until they own it. Paying for something does not make it yours. Possession of it does. IMO

So to my interpretation and I'm not a lawyer but law doesn't say have to take possession it says that it's able to be gifted the statute reads

"Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met..."

By other means is broad and can be to the how it's gifted which doesn't imply that it needs to be in possession first

 

[BONECUTR]

So to my interpretation and I'm not a lawyer but law doesn't say have to take possession it says that it's able to be gifted the statute reads

"Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met..."

By other means is broad and can be to the how it's gifted which doesn't imply that it needs to be in possession first

I guess one could argue a Schrödinger's cat paradox. Paying for a firearm makes it both yours and yet not yours until you take legal possession of it..... Some dealers may see it as a legitimate gift and some will not.

That said I can say that any firearm I ship is to be Transferred/4473'd/DROS's to the person who paid for the firearm only. This is the only way I can fight chargebacks. On a few occasions the only thing that saved me was sending a copy of the 4473 that the other shop transferred showing in fact that the purchaser did the paperwork and signed the 4473. If those stores transferred to a friend I might of lost those disputes.

Most transfer firearms I receive from Buds/Grabagun/and others have similar veribage that this firearm it to be transferred to XXXX XXXX only. If I receive a transfer for person A and person B tried to do the paperwork I won't do it unless I get the green light from the shipper.

 

[Deleted member 46499]

I have done multiple family transfers from out of state. My Mother buys me a firearm I want for Christmas always off roster. She cant gift me a gift that is not hers first. The FFL will not receive it. She buys the firearm. Ships it herself through UPS With A Label from ship my Gun. {Ups Has Firearm rules.} Puts the FFL's Itra- Family letter with picture of her ID with the firearm to The FFL of my choice. 2Azone is who I use.

 

[Deleted member 46499]

I have done multiple family transfers from out of state. My Mother buys me a firearm I want for Christmas always off roster. She cant gift me a gift that is not hers first. The FFL will not receive it. She buys the firearm. Ships it herself through UPS With A Label from ship my Gun. {Ups Has Firearm rules.} Puts the FFL's Itra- Family letter with picture of her ID with the firearm to The FFL of my choice. 2Azone is who I use.

An out-of-state intrafamily firearm transfer requires the firearm to be shipped from an out-of-state family member to a California-licensed firearms dealer (FFL). It must be a direct gift, and you must legally qualify to own the firearm in California. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Because state and federal laws are highly specific, review the step-by-step process below. [1, 2, 3, 4]

1. Eligible Family Members
In California, intrafamily transfers are only permitted up and down the direct lineage. Eligible relationships include: [1, 2]

• Parents and children
• Grandparents and grandchildren
• Note: Transfers between siblings, cousins, aunts, and uncles do not qualify for intrafamily exemptions. [1, 2]

2. The Transfer Process
Because the family members reside in different states, you must comply with federal law and ship the firearm across state lines. [1]

• Step 1: The out-of-state family member must legally possess the firearm. (They cannot purchase a new gun specifically to ship directly to a California FFL without taking possession of it first). [1, 2, 3]
• Step 2: The family member ships the firearm to a local California FFL. (Always contact the receiving FFL in Riverside or your local area ahead of time to confirm they accept and understand out-of-state intrafamily transfers). [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• Step 3: The package must include a copy of the out-of-state family member’s valid Driver’s License and a signed, dated letter stating that the firearm is a bona fide, uncompensated gift to you. [1, 2]

3. Requirements for the Recipient (In CA)
When you pick up the firearm at the California FFL, you will undergo the standard state process: [1, 2, 3]

• Age Restrictions: You must be 21 or older for all firearms (including rifles and shotguns).
• Firearm Safety Certificate (FSC): You must present a valid FSC.
• Background Check & Fees: You will pay the DROS (Dealer Record of Sale) fee, FFL transfer fee, and any shipping costs the FFL charges.
• 10-Day Waiting Period: You must clear a standard background check and observe the mandatory 10-day waiting period. [1, 2, 3]

4. California Compliance
Any firearm transferred into the state must be legal in California. [1]

• Off-Roster Handguns: Handguns not on the state's official roster are exempt from the roster requirement during direct parent-child or grandparent-grandchild transfers. [1, 2]
• Assault Weapons & Magazines: The firearm cannot be classified as a California-banned assault weapon, and any included magazines cannot hold more than 10 rounds. [1, 2, 3]

Disclaimer: Firearm laws are strict and subject to change. Before attempting a transfer, it is highly recommended to call your receiving California FFL dealer or visit the State of California Department of Justice for complete guidelines. [1, 2, 3, 4]

 

[Constitutional Armory]

An out-of-state intrafamily firearm transfer requires the firearm to be shipped from an out-of-state family member to a California-licensed firearms dealer (FFL). It must be a direct gift, and you must legally qualify to own the firearm in California. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Because state and federal laws are highly specific, review the step-by-step process below. [1, 2, 3, 4]

1. Eligible Family Members
In California, intrafamily transfers are only permitted up and down the direct lineage. Eligible relationships include: [1, 2]

• Parents and children
• Grandparents and grandchildren
• Note: Transfers between siblings, cousins, aunts, and uncles do not qualify for intrafamily exemptions. [1, 2]

2. The Transfer Process
Because the family members reside in different states, you must comply with federal law and ship the firearm across state lines. [1]

• Step 1: The out-of-state family member must legally possess the firearm. (They cannot purchase a new gun specifically to ship directly to a California FFL without taking possession of it first). [1, 2, 3]
• Step 2: The family member ships the firearm to a local California FFL. (Always contact the receiving FFL in Riverside or your local area ahead of time to confirm they accept and understand out-of-state intrafamily transfers). [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• Step 3: The package must include a copy of the out-of-state family member’s valid Driver’s License and a signed, dated letter stating that the firearm is a bona fide, uncompensated gift to you. [1, 2]

3. Requirements for the Recipient (In CA)
When you pick up the firearm at the California FFL, you will undergo the standard state process: [1, 2, 3]

• Age Restrictions: You must be 21 or older for all firearms (including rifles and shotguns).
• Firearm Safety Certificate (FSC): You must present a valid FSC.
• Background Check & Fees: You will pay the DROS (Dealer Record of Sale) fee, FFL transfer fee, and any shipping costs the FFL charges.
• 10-Day Waiting Period: You must clear a standard background check and observe the mandatory 10-day waiting period. [1, 2, 3]

4. California Compliance
Any firearm transferred into the state must be legal in California. [1]

• Off-Roster Handguns: Handguns not on the state's official roster are exempt from the roster requirement during direct parent-child or grandparent-grandchild transfers. [1, 2]
• Assault Weapons & Magazines: The firearm cannot be classified as a California-banned assault weapon, and any included magazines cannot hold more than 10 rounds. [1, 2, 3]

Disclaimer: Firearm laws are strict and subject to change. Before attempting a transfer, it is highly recommended to call your receiving California FFL dealer or visit the State of California Department of Justice for complete guidelines. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The whole thing here is what does the law say about possession at the initial step I follow the laws and statutes not by policy or recommendations I'm trying to look for LAW or STATUTE because it's what I follow stating that it must be in out of states possession then transferred. Maybe I'm missing where it's in the law at

 

[BONECUTR]

The whole thing here is what does the law say about possession at the initial step I follow the laws and statutes not by policy or recommendations I'm trying to look for LAW or STATUTE because it's what I follow stating that it must be in out of states possession then transferred. Maybe I'm missing where it's in the law at

Not all laws are clearly defined like that so...

If you are trying to do this without your family taking possession you should be calling your FFL or a series of them near you to ask if THEY are OK with this. (no amount of Penal Code citing is typically going to sway what THEY are comfortable doing.

If you are the FFL doing the transfer I would suggest you contact your attorney or email your CADOJ rep and ask them. Without a proper legal opinion or the green light from CADOJ in writing you have to ask if its worth risking the headache to make $50-100 on a transfer.

 

[jayson_b24]

Do what you can afford.

 

[jam9115]

If my son gifts me a non-CA compliant, I assume that in order to make it completely CA legit, he would would have to send it to my FFL here in CA and do the transfer? With the declaration that it's a gift from son to father...I can't just go to NE and PPT it there, correct?

I believe in California both parties have to be present for the PPT, that being said separate the lower from the upper. Obviously the lower has a serial number the upper does not need to be attached, you also have to remove the magazine release button. It does not become a usable firearm until the upper is installed to the lower.

 

[GeeQ87]

Damn, I may have to patch things up with my pops who’s in a free state lol

 

[mountain_yokai]

I believe in California both parties have to be present for the PPT, that being said separate the lower from the upper. Obviously the lower has a serial number the upper does not need to be attached, you also have to remove the magazine release button. It does not become a usable firearm until the upper is installed to the lower.

I asked my FFL today and they said to have his FFL ship to them with the letter stating it's a gift to his father...so we'll see what happens...this isn't gonna happen anytime soon but I want to be ready

 

[WojtekWeaponry]

I asked my FFL today and they said to have his FFL ship to them with the letter stating it's a gift to his father...so we'll see what happens...this isn't gonna happen anytime soon but I want to be ready

That is, in fact, all that is required,

 

[AR15barrels]

I been trying to find that part in the law or statute but can't find it where they have to take possession of it first

I don't believe physical possession is actually required.
It seems to be the FFL's option on how they enforce that.
I have a local FFL who lets my dad order guns sent to my local FFL and then accepts a gift letter with my dad's drivers license.
The FFL's interpretation is that since it's sent to the FFL and has a gift letter, it's a gift.

 

[AR15barrels]

Well I believe the gift letter with ID is what makes it a gift in itself without the letter then it's considered illegal purchase. The letter makes the legality I think

I believe that's how it actually works.
Technically, I believe my dad could order the gun FROM my local FFL and designate it as a gift for me and the letter makes it a legal gift even though it's sourced directly from my local FFL.

 

[treelogger]

When the gift comes from abroad (using ATF form 6), and is brought into the country by the receiver, it gets even weirder. I think the following is the correct procedure: The receiver flies abroad, there gets the gun from the donor. The receiver (not the donor!) flies back to the US with the gun. At the airport, US customs processes the form 6. Once in California, the receiver (not the donor!) brings the gun to the FFL, together with a gift letter (and copies of the form 6 and the donor's identification, such as their foreign passport). The FFL performs the DROS, takes the gun for 10 days from the receiver, puts it into his safe, and after 10 days returns it to the receiver.

You have to read the above carefully: The receiver takes possession of the gun long before the California PPT DROS actually begins. The donor is not a California resident, nor a US citizen, nor physically in the US. This all sounds insane, and I think most FFLs would have their head explode, but I've been told it is the correct way to do it.

 

[Kinged2026]

Based on the OP's info its assumed his son has a non Compliant gun out of state and is not a CA resident so the CFARS and BOF 4544A are not an option.

I've done a ton of research on this and I have to disagree with your comment. It took me a long time to get to that point, but I now feel strongly based on an CA attorney who specializes in this and my direct communication with CA BOF. Federally, the ATF has issues around interstate when it's a commercial transaction. The non compliant firearm is not the issue when completing an intrafamily transfer from an out of state (non CA) qualified family member. Obviously, the firearm must meet non assault weapon rules (mag capacity and non threaded barrel) but does not need to be on the CA roster, in 99% of the cases it won't be on the CA roster. The out of state donor can transport into CA (following all rules for transportation) a handgun, gift to their qualified family member without the involvement of an FFL, and that family member can fill out the BOF 4544A or CFARS process. I can't wait to hear the responses I get to this post lol

 

[exnds]

In my experience it’s best to just let the sending and receiving FFLs work it out between them and follow whatever they tell you to do. If you ask for advice, half the people will tell you you’re doing it right and the other half will tell you it’s a S* purchase. It will drive you nuts after a while.

 

[jkcerda]

Get a cfars account.

Details please