Domestic American economy about to get crushed?

[mblat1968]

'I think the reality is a significant percentage of people are living in abject poverty'

Nobody in United States live in abject poverty. You, people born and raised here, don't have an idea what poverty is.
Much less abject poverty.


Clarification. I am leaving aside homeless population which is health system failure and not inability of the economy to give this people an option for decent living if they could stay either off or on drugs depending on what they need.

That is said I do agree with overall sentiment. Economy does not feel solid.

 

[couragewolf]

'I think the reality is a significant percentage of people are living in abject poverty'

Nobody in United States live in abject poverty. You, people born and raised here, don't have an idea what poverty is.
Much less abject poverty.


Clarification. I am leaving aside homeless population which is health system failure and not inability of the economy to give this people an option for decent living if they could stay either off or on drugs depending on what they need.

That is said I do agree with overall sentiment. Economy does not feel solid.

Friend I’ve traveled to plenty of places on the current no fly list for work and I’ll tell you first hand that none of them was any worse off than a good chunk of the neighborhoods in south Houston, areas around Appalachia, rural America etc.

There are vast swathes of Americans living without access to education, food security, high quality infrastructure, etc. entire cities have spent years grappling with the government for support to remove lead from their pipes.

I’m not implying that America isn't a first class country though. I’m implying that our socioeconomic strata is so diversified that poverty exists right along side luxury and wealth that’s almost blind to the reality as it occurs around them. I expect this divide to continue to accelerate over time and our generational political demographics prove it out.

 

[mblat1968]

Friend I’ve traveled to plenty of places on the current no fly list for work and I’ll tell you first hand that none of them was any worse off than a good chunk of the neighborhoods in south Houston, areas around Appalachia, rural America etc.

There are vast swathes of Americans living without access to education, food security, high quality infrastructure, etc. entire cities have spent years grappling with the government for support to remove lead from their pipes.

I’m not implying that America isn't a first class country though. I’m implying that our socioeconomic strata is so diversified that poverty exists right along side luxury and wealth that’s almost blind to the reality as it occurs around them. I expect this divide to continue to accelerate over time and our generational political demographics prove it out.

Median income in Appalachian are just under 50k per year
Median income in Venezuela is under 3k. That is abject poverty. Appalachian is not so much.

I am not arguing about the fact that in the last 30 years become richer and poor poorer. It happens. Price we paid for globalization. But abject poverty..... Please.

 

[Jimi Jah]

Stock market hit new highs today. Gold went to $4300/ounce. Silver at $64/ounce, all time high. Up over 100% in a year.

I'm pulling my manditory 4% out of my retirement early next year. It's more than it would have been a year ago.

The economy is working pretty good for me.

 

[couragewolf]

Stock market hit new highs today. Gold went to $4300/ounce. Silver at $64/ounce, all time high. Up over 100% in a year.

I'm pulling my manditory 4% out of my retirement early next year. It's more than it would have been a year ago.

The economy is working pretty good for me.

Percentage of Americans who actually have any exposure to gold or the stock market is a relevant statistic. More relevant than median income in highly disparate verticals that’s for sure.

 

[Jimi Jah]

As a kid I heard Jesus saves but Moses invests.

When I was younger I never thought my meger retirement savings would grow so well. I thought I would be a relatively poor old person.

 

[couragewolf]

As a kid I heard Jesus saves but Moses invests.

When I was younger I never thought my meger retirement savings would grow so well. I thought I would be a relatively poor old person.

I’ve done exceedingly well myself. Saving money however in this environment will be nothing like it was for the last 30 years for the prior.

I come from a childhood which meets the technical definition of poverty and was raised mostly by literal dust bowl depression era grandparents in a rural town so scarcity mindset is hard to shake.

However I’ve used this signal to focus on developing valuable skills that translate to this moment in time with extreme benefit, and I am absolutely maximizing its potential.

At the end of the day the problems I’m describing are not my personal experience they’re the experience of what I’m observing in the social circles I’ve had which span many socioeconomic strata.

The people in one of my signal chats are all Silicon Valley and frankly can’t fathom the experience being presently had of the other signal chat of long term blue collar/ white blue collar friends.

Nevermind that the average boomer right now has something like 1/4 of what they actually need to retire the generations following them are going to have a tough time scratching that out.

On the other hand I know a guy in his early 70s whose parents handed him the only son the two houses they’d bought in LA for a combined sum of 40k and he’s well into 8 figures now with almost zero appreciable skill to show for it.

I wish the best on everyone here, but keep your powder dry no one’s lucky forever.

 

[compulsivegungrabber]

Median income in Appalachian are just under 50k per year
Median income in Venezuela is under 3k. That is abject poverty. Appalachian is not so much.

I am not arguing about the fact that in the last 30 years become richer and poor poorer. It happens. Price we paid for globalization. But abject poverty..... Please.

14.3 percent live below the poverty line, and many do not have clean running water due to aging infrastructure and mine contamination. To those people, the median income does not change their reality. Abject poverty is under $3 a day. 3k a year in Venezuela would be a decent salary, although still hard to live on. Minimum wage there is $33 a month.

 

[mblat1968]

14.3 percent live below the poverty line, and many do not have clean running water due to aging infrastructure and mine contamination. To those people, the median income does not change their reality. Abject poverty is under $3 a day. 3k a year in Venezuela would be a decent salary, although still hard to live on. Minimum wage there is $33 a month.

Two points
It is a common misconception that other countries have significantly lower prices on food, energy, housing. Some things sometimes indeed cheaper - petrostates typically heavily subsidies gasoline. However, that is somewhat an odd ball, and it is not typically affect price of food. Google the price of loaf of bread in Venezuela. It is lower than in States, but not that lower. Or milk. Or eggs.....

Second is coming from the above. I am aware that that particular region has extremely high level of unemployment and very high rate reliance to government assistance. Which at the minimum come out to about 15K per year. That is before food stamps, housing assistance etc....

So. No. Yes, it is absolute shame that policy of our government is so bad that they can't solve this problems for what? 60 years or so ( I do not recall when Appalachian special economic zone was established - and I do not recall it's exact name). However, those people who absolutely were left behind and have full right to feel betrayed and abandoned do not live in abject poverty by the World standards.
And that was the only point I was making. Not that we should not do something to help them.....

 

[couragewolf]

Two points
It is a common misconception that other countries have significantly lower prices on food, energy, housing. Some things sometimes indeed cheaper - petrostates typically heavily subsidies gasoline. However, that is somewhat an odd ball, and it is not typically affect price of food. Google the price of loaf of bread in Venezuela. It is lower than in States, but not that lower. Or milk. Or eggs.....

Second is coming from the above. I am aware that that particular region has extremely high level of unemployment and very high rate reliance to government assistance. Which at the minimum come out to about 15K per year. That is before food stamps, housing assistance etc....

So. No. Yes, it is absolute shame that policy of our government is so bad that they can't solve this problems for what? 60 years or so ( I do not recall when Appalachian special economic zone was established - and I do not recall it's exact name). However, those people who absolutely were left behind and have full right to feel betrayed and abandoned do not live in abject poverty by the World standards.
And that was the only point I was making. Not that we should not do something to help them.....

Can you define poverty in a measurable way

 

[couragewolf]

14.3 percent live below the poverty line, and many do not have clean running water due to aging infrastructure and mine contamination. To those people, the median income does not change their reality. Abject poverty is under $3 a day. 3k a year in Venezuela would be a decent salary, although still hard to live on. Minimum wage there is $33 a month.

The “poverty line math” still equates to 1970s cost of living ratios so just be aware that this isn’t exactly representative of modern American life. Food is far cheaper actually(atleast very unhealthy food). However the basic costs of rent, electricity, travel to work etc are dramatically higher. The concept is that participating in society(being employable) is multitudes more expensive than it once was

 

[mblat1968]

Can you define poverty in a measurable way

from very basic. how many times per day you can afford to have a meal.

 

[markwise]

So is the answer just buy gold and wait? Or buy a house and have hyperinflation wipe put the loan?

 

[couragewolf]

from very basic. how many times per day you can afford to have a meal.

There’s a few more needs on Maslows hierarchy than just food, but any time you’re in LA and drop your kids off somewhere there’s free breakfast for the kids the parents eating the kids free food aren’t doing it because it’s convenient I assure you. This happens all over the country.

 

[couragewolf]

So is the answer just buy gold and wait? Or buy a house and have hyperinflation wipe put the loan?

Both, and more. Although whether or not we actually get something like hyper inflation before the deflationary pressures sink us is up for anyone’s guess no vector is guaranteed. You won’t see hyperinflation if the economy sinks and they just let all the poor starve rather than printing their way out. See you in the work camps

 

[couragewolf]

Marx never could have fathomed a world where the luxuries were optimized so highly that poor people could afford an ice cream, but not their rent, education or a doctors visit. It’s a fascinating world we’ve carved out but unlikely to be a sustainable one for the majority of us.

 

[mblat1968]

Marx never could have fathomed a world where the luxuries were optimized so highly that poor people could afford an ice cream, but not their rent, education or a doctors visit. It’s a fascinating world we’ve carved out but unlikely to be a sustainable one for the majority of us.

You’re using a lot of smart-sounding words — Maslow’s pyramid and so on.


But here’s the deal:


“Marx never could have fathomed a world … but not their … education …”


I am not going to talk about doctors or rent, because education is the easiest example and unlike others are very easily verified.


Marx did not need to imagine a world where poor people could not afford education, because for most of his lifetime the majority of poor people were not educated at all. State-mandated universal education in countries like France, the Netherlands, the USA, and many others either began in the last years of his life or only after his death. Very few countries were as advanced in this respect as Prussia.


And conversely, about the “ice cream” example: not ice cream itself, of course, but sugar. Sugar became very inexpensive around the time Marx was born, which ironically contributed to a major public-health crisis — widespread tooth decay among the poor population. Disclaimer: I heard that last part a few weeks ago on a podcast and found it amusing, but I haven’t independently verified it.


And lastly. Whatever Marx imagined ended up being bunch of total, very bloody non-sense. So, using him as an authority is puzzling.

 

[markwise]

Both, and more. Although whether or not we actually get something like hyper inflation before the deflationary pressures sink us is up for anyone’s guess no vector is guaranteed. You won’t see hyperinflation if the economy sinks and they just let all the poor starve rather than printing their way out. See you in the work camps

“You will own nothing and be happy.” - WEF Chairman

Everything will be a subscription/rent based system/society

Digital dollar coming?

 

[couragewolf]

from very basic. how many times per day you can afford to have a meal.

You’re using a lot of smart-sounding words — Maslow’s pyramid and so on.


But here’s the deal:


“Marx never could have fathomed a world … but not their … education …”


I am not going to talk about doctors or rent, because education is the easiest example and unlike others are very easily verified.


Marx did not need to imagine a world where poor people could not afford education, because for most of his lifetime the majority of poor people were not educated at all. State-mandated universal education in countries like France, the Netherlands, the USA, and many others either began in the last years of his life or only after his death. Very few countries were as advanced in this respect as Prussia.


And conversely, about the “ice cream” example: not ice cream itself, of course, but sugar. Sugar became very inexpensive around the time Marx was born, which ironically contributed to a major public-health crisis — widespread tooth decay among the poor population. Disclaimer: I heard that last part a few weeks ago on a podcast and found it amusing, but I haven’t independently verified it.


And lastly. Whatever Marx imagined ended up being bunch of total, very bloody non-sense. So, using him as an authority is puzzling.

I don’t really care about how anyone feels about Marx his theories about how capitalism was going to play out in the west largely seem supported for the most part. We can use differential equations to demonstrate and maybe Turchin is a less politically loaded mouthpiece for the same vector. Adam Smith godfather of capitalism wasn’t against land lords because he hated the idea of rich people, he was against landlords because he knew and went to great lengths to educate people that resource hoarding breaks the underlying math that fuels capitalism and it’s hunger for growth.

All modern capitalists are really just religious Friedmanites unknowingly preaching a narrow niche of non standard capitalism that supports our current meltdown persisting imo. We need to return to the wisdom of Smith, and reconsider the works of Locke and Voltaire and throw the Friedmanites out with the bath water. Smith was right, Turchin did the math.

I’m not talking about politics I’m talking about economics.

Maslows hierarchy of needs is something you learn in 6th or 7th grade intro to philosophy so I’m not sure how smart sounding that is but if it seems overly “high minded” I guess the metaphor on ice cream or TVs being affordable while getting your dental work done is not is ultimately the more practical point.

If elementary school philosophy was too heady I’m sure you’ll love the post calculus data modeling approach

As far as the education in Russia during Marx era or possibly later I can’t really comment. I only know the writing of Anton Chekhov which is a pretty depressing state. Certainly he paints a picture that many Russians valued education when it was an option and that education was prized as an escape route from systemic suffering. Most of the well known Russian authors paint a picture of Russia from that time period that sounds really no different to the west in this regard though.

 

[couragewolf]

“You will own nothing and be happy.” - WEF Chairman

Everything will be a subscription/rent based system/society

Digital dollar coming?

I think genius act solidified that but the utility of the digital dollar ends up in this scenario actually just being a method to front run liquidity for shorter term treasuries demand drying up as Gromen theorizes in earlier videos I’ve posted in thread.

Less exciting but equally as deflating about our prospects for digging out of this mess financially.