Confused about Shadow Systems CR920XP

[AnNo1983]

I moved from Arizona to California a while ago. I brought and registered my CR920XP here. Two weeks later, I had the confirmation letter in my mailbox. So far, so good.
Today I tried selling it to one of my co-workers. We met at a Turner's in the LA area to do a PPT. The moment they took my gun out of its case, they told me they wouldn't be able to process the PPT because it was an assault weapon. They asked me to take it back to my car because they didn't want it inside the store.
I'm beyond confused. I've seen these guns being sold on CAguns. And if it counts as an assault weapon, why was I able to register it in California? If it is an assault weapon, isn't it illegal to possess it?

 

[adrkwan]

Weird. Someone had a DR920P and ran into the same issue at Turners. You might try a better gun store or call ahead to ensure they are willing to transfer.

 

[Brandon Breeze]

IIRC it uses a lug attachment system, which could potentially put it into that "aw" territory, depending on how it is interpreted.

A big chain, like Turner's that is already under heavy scrutiny at the moment is going to stay far away from that.

Pretty sure Shadow Systems would have gotten it on the Roster if they could have before the cruciform trigger bar ban.

I could be completely wrong as I am not a lawyer.

 

[JackRydden224]

It’s because the system they use could be deemed illegal in California. Could be. A big chain like Turners don’t work with could be.

Where are you and how much lol

 

[num1dude13]

The employees at Turners barely know anything when it comes to laws or firearms. I have run into all kinds of problems there. I had the same issue when doing the PPT for my comp platypus. Avoid Turners at all costs.

 

[AnNo1983]

Weird. Someone had a DR920P and ran into the same issue at Turners. You might try a better gun store or call ahead to ensure they are willing to transfer.

We called ahead

 

[AnNo1983]

It’s because the system they use could be deemed illegal in California. Could be. A big chain like Turners don’t work with could be.

Where are you and how much lol

What confuses me so much is that I was able to register it in CA. How can that be possible if the lugs are an issue? I even had to provide photos of the barrel.
$1500 including Osight SE and a Steamlight TLR 7 sub. In LA

 

[Darqhelmet]

Turners doesn’t want to risk it. If they have a head inspector, DOJ wants to mess with them, the employee is dumb. Go to a local FFL and do the transfer.

 

[BONECUTR]

That model uses a lugged barrel system to hold the comp on. In CA lugged barrels are the same as threaded barrels and therefore it is an AW and Turners was correct.

A new resident registering a P365 with a threaded barrel does not make it legal or transferable.
You can PPT the frame and leave it up to the buyer to replace the comped barrel with a standard model/

 

[AnNo1983]

That model uses a lugged barrel system to hold the comp on. In CA lugged barrels are the same as threaded barrels and therefore it is an AW and Turners was correct.

A new resident registering a P365 with a threaded barrel does not make it legal or transferable.

Then why is it even possible to register a gun like that?

 

[RustVendor]

Then why is it even possible to register a gun like that?

I'm sure the legislature would be happy to pass a bill to hire more workers at DOJ and create a list of assault pistols that they carefully scrutinize, but I feel like them doing the bare minimum review is better for everyone. Compliance should be left to individuals and of course FFLs when they do transfers.

 

[BONECUTR]

Then why is it even possible to register a gun like that?

Cause the CADOJ does not know the configuration of every pistol out there.....
Even if something should of been CA legal they never know modification the owner could make that would make it illegal here.
The legal responsibility lays on you the new resident that you not import anything illegal into CA.
If you get pulled over transporting it you 100% can be charged with possession of an AW. Registration paperwork will not save you.

 

[BONECUTR]

I'm sure the legislature would be happy to pass a bill to hire more workers at DOJ and create a list of assault pistols that they carefully scrutinize, but I feel like them doing the bare minimum review is better for everyone. Compliance should be left to individuals and of course FFLs when they do transfers.

I know for a fact they have flagged models they know are typically illegal. ie anyone trying to registers a USP Tactical is sent an email requesting pictures as those are typically threaded barrel handguns.

 

[AnNo1983]

I know for a fact they have flagged models they know are typically illegal. ie anyone trying to registers a USP Tactical is sent an email requesting pictures as those are typically threaded barrel handguns.

I had to upload pictures. I just don't remember if I took of the comp for these pictures.

 

[BONECUTR]

I had to upload pictures. I just don't remember if I took of the comp for these pictures.

Unlikely as that's how CADOJ agents knock on the door and ask to "see" said firearm that you will never get back.
Plenty of people have pin/welded comps that make them legal.
Also plenty of people with non compliant guns they are hoping to never get caught with.....

 

[RustVendor]

I know for a fact they have flagged models they know are typically illegal. ie anyone trying to registers a USP Tactical is sent an email requesting pictures as those are typically threaded barrel handguns.

I know they rejected the GTO based on that for the roster but have they actually put out any real guidance? The penal code reads "A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer." then defined as:

(rr) “Threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer”
means a threaded barrel able to accept a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer,
and includes a threaded barrel with any one of those features already mounted on it. Some
firearms have “lugs” in lieu of threads on the end of the barrel. These lugs are used to
attach some versions of silencers. For purposes of this definition a lugged barrel is the
same as a threaded barrel

It really would seem that the lugs should be specific to actually fitting an existing suppressor. If they are lugs that are not used to attach silencers the wouldn't fit the definition.

 

[BONECUTR]

I know they rejected the GTO based on that for the roster but have they actually put out any real guidance? The penal code reads "A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer." then defined as:

(rr) “Threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer”
means a threaded barrel able to accept a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer,
and includes a threaded barrel with any one of those features already mounted on it. Some
firearms have “lugs” in lieu of threads on the end of the barrel. These lugs are used to
attach some versions of silencers. For purposes of this definition a lugged barrel is the
same as a threaded barrel

It really would seem that the lugs should be specific to actually fitting an existing suppressor. If they are lugs that are not used to attach silencers the wouldn't fit the definition.

Lugs=Threaded
Suppressor is not the only thing that can fit on the lugs but If I remember correctly there is a suppressor adaptor for the shadow system set up.
Even if there were not someone could 3d print one in minutes..... or even a forward handgrip that attaches to it negating this debate.

Its like saying yes this is a threaded barrel 1/2x28 but LH so no suppressors are made for it. It will take someone with a 3d printer or a machine shop a few minutes to solve that.

 

[RustVendor]

Lugs=Threaded
Suppressor is not the only thing that can fit on the lugs but If I remember correctly there is a suppressor adaptor for the shadow system set up.
Even if there were not someone could 3d print one in minutes..... or even a forward handgrip that attaches to it negating this debate.

Its like saying yes this is a threaded barrel 1/2x28 but LH so no suppressors are made for it. It will take someone with a 3d printer or a machine shop a few minutes to solve that.

To be fair there are also suppressors that clamp on to a non threaded barrel

 

[BONECUTR]

To be fair there are also suppressors that clamp on to a non threaded barrel

100%..... stop giving the DOJ ideas LOL.... next extended barrels capable of accepting a clamp on suppressor will be banned.
Feel the next one they will try to squeeze in the The ramjet barrels since Radian is working on a can and they are clearly not threaded or lugged....

 

[RustVendor]

100%..... stop giving the DOJ ideas LOL.... next extended barrels capable of accepting a clamp on suppressor will be banned.
Feel the next one they will try to squeeze in the The ramjet barrels since Radian is working on a can and they are clearly not threaded or lugged....

very curious to see how Viramontes pans out next year, it's specifically about AR15s but by further defining what kind of weapons and magazines we can have it may throw all this out along with the roster. I won't get my hopes up but we will see. At the very least we will be burning fin grips in a ceremonial bonfire.