Common retailers with “no firearms” signs?

[ikeo1]

They’re actually required to open alcohol sales to the general public as a condition of their liquor license I believe

Today I learned.. thank you…

 

[Gawernator]

Yeah so Sac County Sheriff saying on a piece of paper they hand you when you get your license that you’re not allowed to carry in a business with a “no firearms” sign is meaningless because they didn’t put it on the license itself. I’m still hesitant to be the test case and deal with the attorneys fees but that sounds technically correct

the best attorney ever ChatGPT /s
says that is technically correct. They do list restrictions on the license but not that

 

[Gawernator]

Today I learned.. thank you…

The full list of states where you don’t need a membership to buy alcohol at Costco:

• Arizona
• California
• Colorado
• Connecticut
• Delaware
• Hawaii
• Indiana
• Kentucky
• Massachusetts
• Michigan
• Minnesota
• New York
• Texas
• Vermont

 

[Gawernator]

Not a lawyer, except I do play one on TV and have stayed in a Hampton recently.

Seriously, the term "trespass" in California law is used very confusingly.

One meaning of the term is: to enter someone's property or business illegally, meaning against the law, or unwelcome, meaning while knowing that one is not supposed to. There are also other meanings that are used in tort law, and you can see some of those in section 602 (and I don't mean 602.1 here). Trespassing has civil consequences, like becoming liable for certain damages.

Another meaning of the term is the criminal trespass statute, defined in 602.1: If you are in a place where you are not supposed to be (including the two definitions above), and you are asked to leave, either by law enforcement or the owner or their authorized agent, then you can be criminally cited, prosecuted and convicted under 602.1.

Here is the important thing that people like to forget: You are already trespassing BEFORE you are asked to leave. But you can't be cited under 602.1(a) until and unless you've been asked to leave and don't (or refuse). The "being asked to leave" is not a necessary ingredient for trespass, but it is a necessary element for "criminal trespass", if we define that as "violating sections 602 and further".

But that is all a distinction without difference. The real question here: Is a CCW valid while trespassing, in particular in a place that explicitly tells people "no guns allowed"? I've yet to find anyone (and that includes both Matt Cubeiro and my attorney) who have conclusive said either yes or no. We know that having a CCW does not mean that one is allowed to carry a gun while doing certain things. One example is PC 12022: If you commit a felony while carrying a gun, you will be punished more harshly with an extra year of jail; and having a CCW does not exempt from that. So in effect, the CCW is not "valid" in the sense of not allowing one to carry while committing a felony. One could restate the question above as "is a CCW valid while committing a trespass", of a particular kind of trespass.

My worry is: You go into Costco with a gun. For some reason (metal detector, printing), Costco security calls the cops instead of politely asking you to leave. You get arrested and charged, and go to jail for a year. All because under a reasonable (but not the only possible) interpretation of the law you did not have an operational CCW at that moment. I don't know of any case where this has happened yet, but I don't want myself to be the first one, and I don't wish it on anyone else either.

You are conflating at least three different things: civil trespass, colloquial “unwelcome presence,” and the elements of an actual California criminal trespass offense.


PC 602.1 is not “the criminal trespass statute.” PC 602 itself is a criminal trespass statute, and 602.1 is a narrower provision aimed at intentional interference with a business establishment open to the public, plus refusal to leave after request. The text of 602.1 does not say “anyone who enters a business contrary to a posted condition is guilty.” It requires intentional interference by obstructing or intimidating, and then refusal to leave. Quietly entering Costco while carrying is not automatically that.


More importantly, your conclusion still skips the missing step: cite the California statute or case holding that entry into a business open to the public, while carrying past a “No Firearms” sign, is by itself a completed criminal trespass offense. Not a civil theory. Not a generalized property-rights concept. An actual criminal violation. You have not done that because the authority is not there in the form you are suggesting.


And SB 2 does not fill that gap. The Ninth Circuit ruling left the private-property default rule enjoined, meaning private businesses are not currently transformed into no-carry zones by default absent an affirmative opt-in regime. That makes your “sign alone disables the CCW and creates immediate criminal exposure” theory even less supported.


So the narrow point remains unchanged: a property owner can revoke consent and have someone removed, but that is not the same as proving that a posted “No Firearms” sign, standing alone, creates an immediate criminal trespass the moment a licensee walks in. If you think otherwise, cite the code section or published case for that exact proposition.

 

[Gawernator]

Costco is technically a no firearms please business. So, every time I walk by the front door I look for signs but there are none. However, I found out online that when signing for membership most folks don’t catch the part that says; “ Costco policy prohibits firearms and other weapons to be brought into the warehouse, except in the case of authorized law-enforcement officers.” I know I missed it; didn’t realize until later.

Maybe when they originally created these terms they were thinking of open carry making others uncomfortable if they are unarmed themselves.

Well guess what, I think concealed makes a very pleasant shopping experience for their customers and other members; because they don’t know unless someone is excessively printing. Plus, are they not technically supposed to at least put up a sign?

Are guns & personal firearms allowed in Costco Warehouses?

Welcome to the Costco Customer Service page. Explore our many helpful self-service options and learn more about popular topics.

customerservice.costco.com

“ Costco Wholesale is a membership-only warehouse club. It isn’t open to the general public. As such, it restricts membership to qualified individuals who agree to our membership conditions. We have the right, and the obligation to our members, to enact and enforce our membership rules. By obtaining a Costco membership card, our members agree to comply with the Membership Rules and the Privileges and Conditions of membership. The Member Service Employees at the exit doors are also obliged to follow these rules. At Costco, we don’t believe it’s necessary to bring firearms into our warehouses, except in the case of authorized law enforcement officers. For the protection of all our members and employees, we feel this is a reasonable and prudent precaution to ensure a pleasant shopping experience and safe workplace. Our policy is meant to protect our members and employees in all warehouses around the world. This isn’t a new policy, and we don’t customize this policy for each city/county/state/country where we do business. Our primary goal at Costco Wholesale is to keep our members happy. If you believe that our policy restricting members from bringing firearms into our warehouses is unfair or excessively burdensome, or you cannot agree to abide by this policy, Costco will promptly refund your annual membership fee upon request. Thank you for your understanding.”

It's just liability coverage for Costco, when have you heard of a CCW holder being banned from Costco? They don't care, they just don't want the liability. If you open carry your AK-74 into the store, then yeah they might take issue.

Absolutely guarantee you thousands of people CCW in Costco every day without issue.

 

[ikeo1]

It's just liability coverage for Costco, when have you heard of a CCW holder being banned from Costco? They don't care, they just don't want the liability. If you open carry your AK-74 into the store, then yeah they might take issue.

Absolutely guarantee you thousands of people CCW in Costco every day without issue.

They don't care until they do.

People will still do it regardless, it's just a sign. It's really if people report it or there's an incident like this guy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1kvx5pt/noticed_this_guy_at_costco

You're totally right, most people will ignore laws they don't feel apply to them or think is silly until it's a law they care about.

Just one of those things.

 

[Gawernator]

They don't care until they do.

People will still do it regardless, it's just a sign. It's really if people report it or there's an incident like this guy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1kvx5pt/noticed_this_guy_at_costco

You're totally right, most people will ignore laws they don't feel apply to them or think is silly until it's a law they care about.

Just one of those things.

Which law says you can’t CCW in Costco?

Oh, wait….

Bro was acting all smug and doesn’t even understand what he’s talking about, that’s cute. I can match your Reddit energy if you want - Think before writing, it’s less embarrassing than being provably wrong.

The comments on that post and the 0 karma say it all lmao. “Beta male energy” like that commenter stated. Guy could be a FBI agent for all you know, who gives a fk?

 

[Gawernator]

How is a moderator anti-2A and anti-CCW? That is wild. California moment for sure

 

[ikeo1]

How is a moderator anti-2A and anti-CCW? That is wild. California moment for sure

Don't be stupid... It's not against the law, it's against the company rules. You know because private businesses can do that..

I never said it was against the law. I'm talking about people who make mistakes. Don't act like everyone is perfect before you talk . How are you anti common sense?

I see people all the time who are careless with their ccw, who think they are slick but really people just ignore it, again until you get a karen who cares. Is that anti-2A or are you being smug..

 

[Gawernator]

Don't be stupid... It's not against the law, it's against the company rules. You know because private businesses can do that..

I never said it was against the law. I'm talking about people who make mistakes. Don't act like everyone is perfect before you talk . How are you anti common sense? People are not perfect.

"You're totally right, most people will ignore laws they don't feel apply to them or think is silly until it's a law they care about."

You implied it is a law in your post. They're ignoring the no-CCW in Costco law (but it's not a law) ???

It's their policy sure, but it's not a law. If Costco really cared about that policy there would be people getting banned for CCW. I googled it and can't find even one person talking about losing their membership for having a firearm in Costco. If you're gonna carry, carry. If not, then don't. Unless I'm going to court/federal building/school or through metal detectors I pretty much carry everywhere. That's getting off topic.

You should be saying how glad you are we can legally defend ourselves in a Costco.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

It's just liability coverage for Costco, when have you heard of a CCW holder being banned from Costco? They don't care, they just don't want the liability. If you open carry your AK-74 into the store, then yeah they might take issue.

Absolutely guarantee you thousands of people CCW in Costco every day without issue.

I remember someone posting a picture on Reddit of some guy with a shopping cart. He took the picture behind the guy but he was carrying 5 o clock in a undersized t-shirt where you could see this big ‘ole bulge and definitely can tell it was a shape of a handgun

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

They don't care until they do.

People will still do it regardless, it's just a sign. It's really if people report it or there's an incident like this guy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1kvx5pt/noticed_this_guy_at_costco

You're totally right, most people will ignore laws they don't feel apply to them or think is silly until it's a law they care about.

Just one of those things.

@Gawernator That was the picture.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

"You're totally right, most people will ignore laws they don't feel apply to them or think is silly until it's a law they care about."

You implied it is a law in your post. They're ignoring the no-CCW in Costco law (but it's not a law) ???

It's their policy sure, but it's not a law. If Costco really cared about that policy there would be people getting banned for CCW. I googled it and can't find even one person talking about losing their membership for having a firearm in Costco. If you're gonna carry, carry. If not, then don't. Unless I'm going to court/federal building/school or through metal detectors I pretty much carry everywhere. That's getting off topic.

You should be saying how glad you are we can legally defend ourselves in a Costco.

I think most folks are incognito or try to be low key with it and not like the guy in the picture; holding ourselves to higher standards like we’re supposed to be professionals. They are not trying to accidentally or intentionally scare people while they are doing their grocery shopping; not careless like the guy in the picture. The general public is not supposed to be able to discern. Whenever I’m out and about, most would just think some blue collar guy in steel toe boots, or casual outfits are just outdoor/wilderness friendly like someone who shops at REI. No camo. The farthest I’ll go is maybe a black vortex hat or a first lite brand logo hat/hoodie. But nothing screaming guns or pictures of ammunition. Kore essentials logo hat, I’ve had people start talking to me about working out or strengthening their core .

 

[ikeo1]

"You're totally right, most people will ignore laws they don't feel apply to them or think is silly until it's a law they care about."

You implied it is a law in your post. They're ignoring the no-CCW in Costco law (but it's not a law) ???

It's their policy sure, but it's not a law. If Costco really cared about that policy there would be people getting banned for CCW. I googled it and can't find even one person talking about losing their membership for having a firearm in Costco. If you're gonna carry, carry. If not, then don't. Unless I'm going to court/federal building/school or through metal detectors I pretty much carry everywhere. That's getting off topic.

You should be saying how glad you are we can legally defend ourselves in a Costco.

Do you think they're going to announce it if they got banned from costco? If you got banned from a costco for having a ccw are you going to go to Reddit and motherless that you got banned for carrying a ccw in a costco? Actually yes they do...

Enter in search

"Has anyone lost their costco membership for ccw in costco cite them"



I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's who is watching you who sees it and decides to call you out on it. Don't be rude when I'm just stating the reality of people being people. There are a ton of Karens in the world...

 

[Experimentalist]

True story. I was in a Costco in Arizona several years ago. Moving down one of the main aisles I heard a clatter nearby in a side-aisle. I looked to see someone swiftly recovering their holstered pistol that somehow had fallen out onto the concrete floor.

I didn't care. I just thought "Free America". When he looked at me I smiled, shook my head and said "That's... not good". He ruefully echoed my words, and that was that.

No idea how it happened, I didn't see what was going on until after holstered pistol made impact with the ground. I did reflect afterwards, how he was lucky it was me who witnessed the mistake and not someone prone to hysterics.

 

[Gawernator]

True story. I was in a Costco in Arizona several years ago. Moving down one of the main aisles I heard a clatter nearby in a side-aisle. I looked to see someone swiftly recovering their holstered pistol that somehow had fallen out onto the concrete floor.

I didn't care. I just thought "Free America". When he looked at me I smiled, shook my head and said "That's... not good". He ruefully echoed my words, and that was that.

No idea how it happened, I didn't see what was going on until after holstered pistol made impact with the ground. I did reflect afterwards, how he was lucky it was me who witnessed the mistake and not someone prone to hysterics.

lol wild. I wonder how you can manage to make that happen, even if I took my pants off my Vedder holster won't come loose and upside down the gun stays in

 

[ikeo1]

lol wild. I wonder how you can manage to make that happen, even if I took my pants off my Vedder holster won't come loose and upside down the gun stays in

You have a holster, you’d be surprised how many people don’t have a proper holster and even worse pocket carry. You and most people here aren’t the status quo. It’s very cringe to the point where I didn’t want to be a CCW instructor and preferred to work with people who are farther along in their journey. I respect CCW instructors so much for their patience. I’m sure the ones you know will tell you some crazy things.

 

[Gawernator]

You have a holster, you’d be surprised how many people don’t have a proper holster and even worse pocket carry. You and most people here aren’t the status quo. It’s very cringe to the point where I didn’t want to be a CCW instructor and preferred to work with people who are farther along in their journey. I respect CCW instructors so much for their patience. I’m sure the ones you know will tell you some crazy things.

Other than a girl that shot the ceiling multiple times somehow in bootcamp, I never have been around people super incompetent with guns much luckily. Well, I guess until now being a civilian lmao

I also sometimes teach the CHP CMSP riding courses and it's basically the same, a nightmare teaching the general public

 

[treelogger]

You are conflating at least three different things: civil trespass, colloquial “unwelcome presence,” and the elements of an actual California criminal trespass offense.

On the contrary. I point out that many people conflate them, all the time.

... 602.1 is a narrower provision aimed at ... refusal to leave after request.

Exactly. That is what many people (inaccurately but commonly) call "trespass". For example when lots of people say: "It's not trespassing until you are asked to leave and refuse".

More importantly, your conclusion still skips the missing step: cite the California statute or case holding that entry into a business open to the public, while carrying past a “No Firearms” sign, is by itself a completed criminal trespass offense.

I didn't say that it is. Nor do I think that it is. Black letter law is clear on that.

However, the question stands: Does carrying past a "no firearms" sign or an implicit prohibition invalidate one's CCW?

 

[Gawernator]

On the contrary. I point out that many people conflate them, all the time.


Exactly. That is what many people (inaccurately but commonly) call "trespass". For example when lots of people say: "It's not trespassing until you are asked to leave and refuse".


I didn't say that it is. Nor do I think that it is. Black letter law is clear on that.

However, the question stands: Does carrying past a "no firearms" sign or an implicit prohibition invalidate one's CCW?

It would at a minimum be required to be printed on the card