Clothey and Sons Gunsmithing

[angryasian]

The funny thing is that like most of us on this forum I have been tinkering with most platforms for almost 20 years and I have gone to most through most of the military’s general and specialized armorers schools. I recognize that some things take time. Hell I’ll even admit some projects I help people with take me twice as long as I originally thought so I cut them slack. But that being said this place is beyond reasonable.

 

[OneManArmy]

Show us the itemized invoice.

Ok here is the receipt. Please understand there is a lot more to this story I was just trying to keep it simple and didn’t want to write a book. Below you will see an invoice for $760 this is because when they originally quoted me $900 we got into it and they basically held my Gun hostage. I left the store and they called me the next day saying they would take some fees off. About $130 or so, that’s why this final invoice is different but please understand $760 is still insane and if you look, you will see how they charged me to work on the buffer and BCG but then ended up replacing them. Also they ordered new parts without even telling me. Had they told me it needed a new BCG I would have warrantied it through stag. Everything on this rifle was brand new. I also gave them plenty of ammo for testing.

 

[angryasian]

I’m surprised they didn’t charge to for the gas to drive to the range! Actually they probably did

 

[jhsd20]

They absolutely charged for gas to the range, it's part of the 90 dollars per hour and the 4 hours charged for it.

If you go into a gunsmith shop and tell them exactly what to do e.g. "I want my barrel recrowned", you'll probably walk out with a reasonable price. If you walk in and say "fix my gun" and let THEM DECIDE what to do, they're going to perform as many fixes as possible and charge you for all of them.

My advice is always educate yourself and do your own diagnoses. Go to a service only for the fix you want but can't do due to lack of tools. Otherwise they will attack the problem from every angle to solve it and charge for all of it.

Always remember that every business's goal is to make money, and a fool and his are easily parted.

 

[OneManArmy]

They absolutely charged for gas to the range, it's part of the 90 dollars per hour and the 4 hours charged for it.

If you go into a gunsmith shop and tell them exactly what to do e.g. "I want my barrel recrowned", you'll probably walk out with a reasonable price. If you walk in and say "fix my gun" and let THEM DECIDE what to do, they're going to perform as many fixes as possible and charge you for all of them.

My advice is always educate yourself and do your own diagnoses. Go to a service only for the fix you want but can't do due to lack of tools. Otherwise they will attack the problem from every angle to solve it and charge for all of it.

Always remember that every business's goal is to make money, and a fool and his are easily parted.

I hear ya my friend. I know now, that I should have approached this differently. I get a business needs to make money. However I truly feel if a better gunsmith was given this rifle. There would have been a huge difference in the amount of wasted time. See they charged me for a new BCG, however when I got the rifle back. The gun fired fine with bot. So the bolt was never an issue. The buffer spring and buffer also didn’t need to be replaced, the issue was the gas system not being installed correctly. It didn’t allow the bolt to cycle fully. Wasted time and parts were pushed onto me because of a gunsmith that didn’t have the knowledge.

 

[angryasian]

They absolutely charged for gas to the range, it's part of the 90 dollars per hour and the 4 hours charged for it.

If you go into a gunsmith shop and tell them exactly what to do e.g. "I want my barrel recrowned", you'll probably walk out with a reasonable price. If you walk in and say "fix my gun" and let THEM DECIDE what to do, they're going to perform as many fixes as possible and charge you for all of them.

My advice is always educate yourself and do your own diagnoses. Go to a service only for the fix you want but can't do due to lack of tools. Otherwise they will attack the problem from every angle to solve it and charge for all of it.

Always remember that every business's goal is to make money, and a fool and his are easily parted

That being said, it’s bad business to charge more for a repair than something is worth without clearing it first. It’s a small community, word travels fast.

 

[Serbianguy]

I know it’s a little late for this bit of sage wisdom, but anyone with a tiny bit of mechanical aptitude could have figured that out. Next time have one of your friends look at it. Excluding that, most manufacturers of uppers want their wares to work and would have probably fixed that for nothing.

 

[H. Bowman]

Ya I'd be pissed. 360 bucks to diagnose a "rough buffer tube" is ridiculous.

 

[AR15barrels]

I took it to the range to test it, it would fire but not chamber the next round.
The bolt would never go back all the way no matter how much I opened the gas block.

I could have told you from this alone that the gas block is probably not aligned correctly.
When I build an upper with a setscrew-attached gas block, I always drill a detent in the barrel 180 degrees around the barrel from the gas port to properly locate and retain the gas block if the gas block is not already pinned to the barrel.

 

[eaglemike]

I could have told you from this alone that the gas block is probably not aligned correctly.
When I build an upper with a setscrew-attached gas block, I always drill a detent in the barrel 180 degrees around the barrel from the gas port to properly locate and retain the gas block if the gas block is not already pinned to the barrel.

It's actually pretty easy to make a drill jig that would pick up the gas port, with a hole opposite to make a dimple. I just thought about that, Isn't anyone making something like that already? I figured you would know better than anyone else.

 

[Dohboy]

So to answer as many questions and comments. The AR15 was a Lefty Stag arms build. The rifle was brand new when I got it. I took it to the range to test it, it would fire but not chamber the next round. The bolt would never go back all the way no matter how much I opened the gas block. Wile at the range a guy that worked there. Mentioned I should take it to clothey and sons right down the street to have them check it out. That’s what I did. Seemed like it might of just been a simple fix that a proper gunsmith could figure out. When I went to Clothey and Sons, the gunsmith said it might be the buffer tube because the tube was not smooth on the inside and also mentioned the bolt seemed to not be in spec for the upper.( Stag bolt, stag upper. Lefty ) I dropped the gun off and a week later the gunsmith ordered a new bolt without even telling me. Had he said the bolt was a no go, I would have called Stag for a new one. Which I did later and got it warrantied. Too late though as I was all ready the proud owner of a new bolt. Then they charged me to clean the buffer tube, then charged me for replacing the buffer tube????? Also charged me for a new Gas tube and buffer. $900 later and yes the rifle fires good. No issues since then but $900 is insane as I could have just purchased a complete new upper. You all know as well as me this is absurd. This is just my story. By all means if you have a good relationship with this shop. Do you, I just don’t recommend this place. They tried to screw me over.

Final result. I only payed $400, as the other $500 I had to pay to get my rifle back, since they were holding it hostage until the whole $900 was payed. Well I called my bank and pulled that $500 back. There was no way I was about to give these clowns $900, even $400 was insane but that what I ended up paying.

Did they come after you for the $500 you pulled back? Crazy that they would buy a new bolt, tube and buffer without checking with you first. No bueno.

So for the $400 you did end up paying, you got a pinned and welded muzzle device (presumably that you requested) and a BCG that you don't need. I guess the BCG can't be returned if it's been installed/shot. Maybe try to sell here to recoup something.

 

[AR15barrels]

It's actually pretty easy to make a drill jig that would pick up the gas port, with a hole opposite to make a dimple. I just thought about that, Isn't anyone making something like that already? I figured you would know better than anyone else.

There are several fixtures sold that do exactly that.
The problem is that many gas ports are not drilled perfectly centered on the barrel OD so those fixtures cause the gas block to sit crooked on the barrel because those fixtures locate from the crooked gas port.
Most gas blocks have a 0.159" hole between the barrel bore and the gas tube bore to carry the gas from the barrel so there is a good amount of extra clearance over the typical gas port diameters 0f 0.050" to 0.093".

I made all my fixturing pieces to work with a simple Kurt vise.
I hold the barrel or the barreled upper square/level to the mill table and then I drill the detent or the gas port centered in the barrel diameter.
So even if the original gas port is a little crooked, I let that extra 1/16" or so of difference in barrel gas port vs gas block port size account for any differences that my proper upright gas block installation creates on barrels with crooked ports.

 

[OneManArmy]

Did they come after you for the $500 you pulled back? Crazy that they would buy a new bolt, tube and buffer without checking with you first. No bueno.

So for the $400 you did end up paying, you got a pinned and welded muzzle device (presumably that you requested) and a BCG that you don't need. I guess the BCG can't be returned if it's been installed/shot. Maybe try to sell here to recoup something.

No they never got the money I pulled back, or came after me for it. Yes I payed for the pin and weld, new BCG, Buffer spring/buffer and a new gas tube. Stag customer support was awesome and they warrantied the original bolt that the Gunsmith said was bad. Even though it wasn’t because before I sent in the Bolt I tested the gun with both bolts and the gun ran fine. It never needed a new bolt, nor buffer. The issue was the gas system the whole time. Gunsmith either was incompetent, or just wanted to become a millionaire. Not sure why this wasn’t just a pin and weld and labor to fix gas system?

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Gunsmith either was incompetent, or just wanted to become a millionaire. Not sure why this wasn’t just a pin and weld and labor to fix gas system?

This album playing in the background while providing VIP premium special customer service work on your AR in the back.

50 Cent - Get Rich or Die Try’in

 

[Cisco69]

I've used them and they are great. Most people I know use them as well, and have never had any problems.

 

[OneManArmy]

I've used them and they are great. Most people I know use them as well, and have never had any problems.

I’m sure people have had good experiences with them. I’m just sharing my experience. I personally would never bring anything here again. They did me dirty!

 

[eric1994]

I’m sure people have had good experiences with them. I’m just sharing my experience. I personally would never bring anything here again. They did me dirty!

I wish I did my due dilligence and went to the forum before taking Discount Gun Mart's recommendation to go with Clothey and Son's I had a similar experience with them