CCW CCW insurance/attorney

[NorCalBusa]

P.S. If you are doing really well financially and have a lot to lose, you might not want to go with any of these plans. You may be better off getting a referral in your community to an expert civil or criminal trial attorney and simply getting their business card to keep in your wallet. Total cost: $0 until you actually need the services, in which case you can start a case for $15,000 to $20,000. In SoCal, obviously there's C.D. Michel. In NorCal, I would go with someone like Don Kilmer for a criminal case since he is a shooter and does criminal defense. For civil, there is no shortage of civil trial attorneys in the Bay Area, not as many who also shoot, though. Of course there is yours truly, and since I'm a vendor on here I can promote my services, but also consider someone like Hussein Saffouri. He went to Yale and is a generalist civil litigator-- I should note that I've never been so politely destroyed in court before, or since. All that matters is that your civil attorney has extensive experience and extensive trial experience-- they don't have to be a 2A enthusiast, although it can help since they understand the issues. It can also hurt, because your typical jury doesn't want to think the attorney is promoting the 2A cause (or any other cause) when the only actual issue for them to decide is the negligence of the defendant. So the primary qualifier for a use of force civil case is being an expert in civil trial advocacy and being able to assemble a case, including a use of force expert. Experts like that are in criminal defense attorneys' rolodexes, which a civil attorney can easily access with a phone call. Your civil lawyer ideally is connected in the area and knows people so that the best resources can be applied to your case. That is where something like Attorneys On Retainer will fall down-- they are nationwide, but they can't be everywhere, so like CCW Safe they are also just going to call the local 2A attorney or their panel counsel for connections in the community where the incident occurred. Another reason to have a local attorney's card in your wallet-- you go directly to someone who can help instead of someone in the next state who is not familiar with your community.</soapbox>

I've been told we'd need two, maybe four attorney's for a defense shooting:

1. Known local criminal attorney- who will just get your ass out of jail that or next day
2. Bigger criminal gun- (<-- see what I did there?); who will be your criminal defense
3. Civil attorney- to fight the civil suit, should it come
4. Negotiate your talk show, book & movie deals

Sound about right?

 

[raellic]

I've been told we'd need two, maybe four attorney's for a defense shooting:

1. Known local criminal attorney- who will just get your ass out of jail that or next day
2. Bigger criminal gun- (<-- see what I did there?); who will be your criminal defense
3. Civil attorney- to fight the civil suit, should it come
4. Negotiate your talk show, book & movie deals

Sound about right?

The biggest reason for #1 is that they have credibility with the court and the D.A., which is very important when someone is charged with a crime.
The biggest reason for #2 is that they may be an expert in this type of case but not familiar with California law if they are from out of state.
The biggest reason for #3 is that civil cases are much different from criminal cases, and #1 must be separate from #3. If you have badasses for #1 and #3, you instantly have a lot better chances at credibility in front of juries. Civil litigation would be highly probable in a scenario where the D.A. is unsure whether to file charges.
#3 can do #4's role. So I think you need three attorneys overall. Our offering covers #1 and #3, but not #2 or #4. I have excellent criminal defense attorneys in my network and I can make creative arrangements with them to cover their services under the plan.

 

[Chewy19]

I have next to no crim law experience, as mine was all in civil law. If one has substantial assets, I believe the better move is to both get a self defense plan that provides a criminal and civil legal defense that also covers civil liabiity. I might also get a separate legal plan. Since I am civil litigator, I might forego a legal plan but I am looking into plans that appear to indeminify civil costs.

A side note. While I have been sued a few times, I don't like to represent myself and leave that up to attorneys chosen by an insurer. Those insurers and insurance companies are made well aware that I will demand a proper defense

 

[gunownersradio]

We put together a guide that compares the different vendors, side by side - check it out at

Legal Protection - Gun Owners Radio

LEGAL PROTECTION Read how Lonestar Firearm Defense, U.S. Concealed Carry Association, CCW Safe, Firearms Legal Protection, U.S. Law Shield and Self Defense Fund will protect you. If you’ve made the […]

gunownersradio.com

 

[Chewy19]

That is an interesting chart provided by gunownersradio. I believe the chart is provided in good faith, but not so certain of the statements provided by some of the defense companies to gunownderreadios's quetions.

“We are the only company in the industry to have defended a murder charge. We have 35 years of self-defense trial experience “ says CCW Safe, but compare that statement with what SDV provides under Case Files.

“SDF Alabama Attorney Nicholas Sparks . . . and his legal team successfully convinced
the district attorney to dismiss the murder charge . . . .”

“Famous SDF New York award winning law firm of Raiser & Kenniff represented Daniel Penny in the death of Jordan Neely. . . .” This was the first trial “After a strong defense by the SDF attorneys on the first charge of manslaughter and the second charge of homicide the jury after hearing all the facts and seeing all the evidence made a decision resulting in Penny being acquitted of all charges on Monday 9, 2024.”

How do the claims of CCW Safe square up with those of SDF? They don’t unless the statements re the two attorneys were SDF attorneys in some matters, but in the two mentioned cases were not acting as SDF attorneys.

 

[raellic]

Just under three weeks into this, we're at a dozen signups or pledges with about four weeks to go until billing and coverage starts. Would love ten more signups, please email me if interested: andrew@watters.law

 

[FriedChickies]

Just under three weeks into this, we're at a dozen signups or pledges with about four weeks to go until billing and coverage starts. Would love ten more signups, please email me if interested: andrew@watters.law

Interested! I just sent you an email.

 

[BOOLITZ]

Just under three weeks into this, we're at a dozen signups or pledges with about four weeks to go until billing and coverage starts. Would love ten more signups, please email me if interested: andrew@watters.law

Email sent

 

[k9wulfe]

I’m using “Firearms Legal Protection” for the last seven years and have been happy with the coverage provided.

Home

When you need help, the Firearms Legal Protection Emergency Hotline is always ready for you. Answered by attorneys. Not an answering machine.

firearmslegal.com

 

[NorCalBusa]

I’m using “Firearms Legal Protection” for the last seven years and have been happy with the coverage provided.

Home

When you need help, the Firearms Legal Protection Emergency Hotline is always ready for you. Answered by attorneys. Not an answering machine.

firearmslegal.com

How many claims have you made/how was that process? That's where the rubber meets the road...

 

[timthetwin]

$1m in GL coverage is low in California.

 

[HSVentura]

Email sent

Same here

 

[doggman61]

Just under three weeks into this, we're at a dozen signups or pledges with about four weeks to go until billing and coverage starts. Would love ten more signups, please email me if interested: andrew@watters.law

15 weeks later, wandering if anything came to fruition with this?
My ccw safe plan expires in 10 days and currently looking at all the options/opinions.

 

[raellic]

Hi all, I wanted to provide an update. We have received a number of pledges, but we need another 5-7 pledges to make it make sense so that we can start actually running the program. This may take another month. Also my son was born on January 12 and the first two months were really tough with travel, trials, and child care obligations, among other things. Ready to start soon.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Hi all, I wanted to provide an update. We have received a number of pledges, but we need another 5-7 pledges to make it make sense so that we can start actually running the program. This may take another month. Also my son was born on January 12 and the first two months were really tough with travel, trials, and child care obligations, among other things. Ready to start soon.

Congrats to Andy Jr.! (Of course, your wife did most of the work...)

 

[Krusty]

Just remember, if you are found guilty, USCCA will sue you to get a refund of their expenses, including atty fees. Read the small print.

WOW. I didn't know that. Thx for pointing that out.

 

[Miyoko’sButter]

Hi all, I wanted to provide an update. We have received a number of pledges, but we need another 5-7 pledges to make it make sense so that we can start actually running the program. This may take another month. Also my son was born on January 12 and the first two months were really tough with travel, trials, and child care obligations, among other things. Ready to start soon.

Count me in! I’ll email you my information

 

[raellic]

WOW. I didn't know that. Thx for pointing that out.

The recoupment clauses are critically important for members to read. They are either recoupment from the plaintiff (in a civil case only) or recoupment from the member. Recoupment from the plaintiff in a civil case would be that if there is a basis to recover fees from the civil plaintiff, then the law firm does that to try to recover its fees. Recoupment from the member is as @Vintagearms said-- in the event the member is found guilty in a criminal case, there is a possibility the plan is going to seek what they paid back from the member because the conviction indicates that there was no valid self defense claim. This is apparently required in some states-- not in California to my knowledge, but I will have to do a deep dive to confirm that. In any case, our plan Carry California does not have recoupment from the member at all-- instead, we have recoupment from the plaintiff in a civil case, and in criminal we do not cover murder charges (1st or 2nd degree) for a variety of reasons. First, it is highly improbable that a bona fide self-defense case involving a CCW permit holder is going to be charged as a murder and also pass the preliminary hearing without being reduced at all. Second, if you're in a nightmare scenario heated shooting not initiated by you, and you had a lapse in judgment and decided to "finish off" the offender after they are no longer a threat-- although that is of course illegal-- at least you would be more likely charged with voluntary manslaughter, which is covered if there is a bona fide self-defense argument. Additionally, a capital case is beyond the scope of a monthly legal plan, and the customer would be better off selecting and paying for their own criminal defense attorney. Although we would pay for the criminal defense in a self-defense case other than murder, the customer would not be able to directly choose the attorney because it would be someone from our network with whom an agreeable retainer would be negotiated. The realities of running this as a business require certain compromises, and I think we have a good blend of price and value for residents in California-- something no other plan can compete with because they all either do not have the lawyers known in advance or are not admitted in California.

We're close to the minimum pledges needed to start the program, so I'll invite anyone else who wants to do so to email us promptly and get on the list. The sooner the minimum of 20 members is reached, the better for everyone and the sooner billing and coverage can begin.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I recommend Attorneys On Retainer, which provides the most flexibility and coverage, and value. I don't have it myself only because I have my own law firm and will just defend any cases in-house or within my network. I tried offering an AOR-style program on a monthly legal plan for California residents, but unfortunately there were no signups even though the price was similar.

Thanks for defining "AOR". Saved me a Google.

 

[tomrkba]

Wanting to see what people are buying. I hear USCCA is going downhill with all the alegations and im aiming for AOR instead

what are you guys running with

AOR and CCW Safe (bought out Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network). AOR covers many things that others do not.