Question Legal Asking for someone else (no it’s not me). How bad can it get for them?

[Dvrjon]

I don’t feel comfortable on speaking that far into their business about that; sorry.

What ticket did the nice LEO write? Carrying an unlicensed, loaded concealed weapon doesn’t seem to be a simple infraction.

The identity of the IA would make a difference as it would tell us whether the IA uses the out-dated form you posted (The current form is dated 1/2024,) or goes through a vendor like Permitium.

From that we could tell if your friend was reasonably advised of the need to qualify before carrying, although that seems intuitively necessary based on initial issuance requirements. In Sac County, the Permitium App requires submittal of training records for substituting weapons.

Attach Documentation:​

To upload documentation, please use the button below to begin the process. The maximum size of individual files is 5 MB. You must upload all required documents listed below.[…]

• FOR GUN MODIFICATION (for new firearms added to the permit):
  • Sacramento County Sheriff’s Office CCW Qualification Form.
  • Carry Concealed Weapon Program DOJ Certified Instructor Certificate.

To your friend’s situation: it would be better to have them notify the IA of the oversight than to have the IA pick up the information on their own.

 

[Deleted member 46499]

Thank Lord baby Jesus I have Bianco in riverside

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I mean, shouldn't your friend know if he has to notify his IA? He took 16 hours of class FFS all of these rules were almost certainly discussed

 

[nakatomi]

Your friend is trying to play dumb and I think he thinks you're dumb too. Call him out. The "I didn’t know" argument makes no sense.

He qualified each firearm before and spent months preparing. He knew just isn't being straight up with you. There is a missing story as to how this traffic stop resulted in a search. Lots of missing details.

Don't all Bay Area and Sacramento IAs require disclosure after LE contact or enforcement action? So him asking if he should contact his IA is also bizarre. This is an expensive and time consuming process playing dumb here doesn't add up.

 

[BONECUTR]

Your friend is trying to play dumb

This is a fact. Normally I don't change guns during the two years. One time I submitted a modification and was going nuts waiting since it took 4+ months to get approved. I really wanted to carry that gun but 10000000% knew I couldn't until I got the updated license showing the firearm listed.

 

[Dvrjon]

Basically known as "duty to inform" and like you said depends on the IA's policies. Most I would assume do for officer safety reasons, but many officers either have access to your permit status associated when they run your plates or license if they're keyed into a system on their computer in the cruiser that has acess to the systems necessary or dispatch can notify them when they run the plates.

Your plates are not linked to your CCW, and running the plates of a rental or borrowed vehicle will give them nothing.

If they run your ID solely for DMV, it won’t flag CCW.

However, if they hit the C.L.E.T.S (California Law Enforcement Telecommunications System), and query your RAP (Record of Arrests and Prosecutions) Sheet for “wants and warrants”, etc., it will reflect your CCW.

Why do you have a RAP Sheet? Every CCW issued in CA bears a “CII Number”. That is the “Criminal Information Index” file which contains records of anyone fingerprinted in CA (criminals) plus individuals under restraining orders and persons fingerprinted for special purposes (school duty) and CCW.

Please see: The OAG’s page: fingerprint background checks and limit your focus to paragraphs 2 and 3 or your eyes will bleed.

Best.

 

[jmpeal]

Yes, SAc county requires to notify them anytime you have interaction with LEO, especially if they ask for your DL. And yes, they require you to notify the LEO if you are carrying or not. I have had two LEO interactions, once when carrying and let them know carrying, what gun and where it was. The other time was not carrying, but on break from hunting. No issues with the police that pulled me over or Sac County Sheriff. They emailed me back stating thank you for contacting us and no further contact needed. Been carrying for 15 years now.

 

[Ernst]

As my IA explained it to me, I am not licensed to conceal carry any firearm that is not listed on my permit. Essentially, it would be treated as if I was carrying a concealed loaded gun without any permit at all. In the case of carrying a loaded firearm without a permit, my understanding is that it's a "wobbler," and can be charged as either a misdemeanor or a felony.

In addition, upon LEO contact I must inform the officer/deputy of my being a CCW holder, and allow inspection of my permit and firearm(s) if requested. I also have to report any LEO contact to my IA within five days, or I am in violation of the terms of issuance.

Violate any of these and it is goodbye CCW permit.

For the record, I have been pulled over on a traffic stop, abided by all the stipulations, and it panned out to be nothing at all.

 

[weaverftw]

Your friend is trying to play dumb and I think he thinks you're dumb too. Call him out. The "I didn’t know" argument makes no sense.

He qualified each firearm before and spent months preparing. He knew just isn't being straight up with you. There is a missing story as to how this traffic stop resulted in a search. Lots of missing details.

Don't all Bay Area and Sacramento IAs require disclosure after LE contact or enforcement action? So him asking if he should contact his IA is also bizarre. This is an expensive and time consuming process playing dumb here doesn't add up.

Bro OP is the “friend” and he knows he F-ed up, and is desperately seeking advice.

Certainly CCW will be revoked for carrying an unlisted firearm. Hopefully not much worse legal trouble. You should notify your IA as it will just be worse if they find out on their own on a renewal.

 

[Hindsight]

Your plates are not linked to your CCW, and running the plates of a rental or borrowed vehicle will give them nothing.

If they run your ID solely for DMV, it won’t flag CCW.

However, if they hit the C.L.E.T.S (California Law Enforcement Telecommunications System), and query your RAP (Record of Arrests and Prosecutions) Sheet for “wants and warrants”, etc., it will reflect your CCW.

Why do you have a RAP Sheet? Every CCW issued in CA bears a “CII Number”. That is the “Criminal Information Index” file which contains records of anyone fingerprinted in CA (criminals) plus individuals under restraining orders and persons fingerprinted for special purposes (school duty) and CCW.

Please see: The OAG’s page: fingerprint background checks and limit your focus to paragraphs 2 and 3 or your eyes will bleed.

Best.

Solid information!

 

[nakatomi]

Bro OP is the “friend” and he knows he F-ed up, and is desperately seeking advice.

Sometimes people are just asking a question.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[grandpapeepap]

yeah sometimes people are just jaqing off

 

[GeeQ87]

Solid information!

Idk but LASD pulled me over for no front plate. Then I was asked if i know so and so, somehow they knew exactly which fellow deputy I bought my M2.0 from. Blew my mind, I’m not even a CCW holder and there was no gun on me or in the car lol

 

[Hindsight]

Idk but LASD pulled me over for no front plate. Then I was asked if i know so and so, somehow they knew exactly which fellow deputy I bought my M2.0 from. Blew my mind, I’m not even a CCW holder and there was no gun on me or in the car lol

Yah ... pretty sure no front license plate is almost never a reason to pull someone over to most LEOs in the state unless they need or want a reason, see something else wrong or to tack on, etc.

 

[grandpapeepap]

Yah ... pretty sure no front license plate is almost never a reason to pull someone over to most LEOs in the state unless they need or want a reason, see something else wrong or to tack on, etc.

no front plate itself is a reason they can pull you over, but its like speeding. They mostly ignore it you are right. Unless you somehow only got one plate issued of course

 

[weaverftw]

Yah ... pretty sure no front license plate is almost never a reason to pull someone over to most LEOs in the state unless they need or want a reason, see something else wrong or to tack on, etc.

Eeeeeeh if it’s even remotely a performance car, that is an auto-pull over for many LEOs. Easy justification for a stop to ding someone on an exhaust or other illegal mod. I guess it depends where you are, a rural sheriff is not likely to care but a PD in a big city 100%

This is why I keep front plates and no front tint or obvious cosmetic mods on my cars

 

[Dvrjon]

As my IA explained it to me, I am not licensed to conceal carry any firearm that is not listed on my permit. Essentially, it would be treated as if I was carrying a concealed loaded gun without any permit at all. In the case of carrying a loaded firearm without a permit, my understanding is that it's a "wobbler," and can be charged as either a misdemeanor or a felony.

It’s not a “wobbler”. Wobblers begin as a felony and can be charged by the DA at the lower misdemeanor level. This is a misdemeanor from the jump. Charges can be elevated to a felony by enhancement if the firearm is stolen, you are not the registered owner, you are an active gang member, or you have prior felony convictions.

 

[Hindsight]

Eeeeeeh if it’s even remotely a performance car, that is an auto-pull over for many LEOs. Easy justification for a stop to ding someone on an exhaust or other illegal mod. I guess it depends where you are, a rural sheriff is not likely to care but a PD in a big city 100%

This is why I keep front plates and no front tint or obvious cosmetic mods on my cars

I've not that had experience luckily, but I have heard of those who have. I mostly drive my cars stock nowadays as constantly tuning and modding gets tiresome, expensive, and caused me reliability issues over time with tolerance stacking.

There are some legal tint percentages depending on the window, but even just ceramic tint with no light transmission change (so it visibly doesn't look much difference) is super nice for the summer heat. Drops the internal temp a good 10-15 degrees and fully protects from harmful UV rays. Worth it for just that alone, personally.

 

[Dvrjon]

no front plate itself is a reason they can pull you over, but its like speeding. They mostly ignore it you are right. Unless you somehow only got one plate issued of course

If pulled over for no front plate, ask the nice officer what their procedures are for Teslas*.

* DO NOT do this if you are driving a Tesla.

 

[Gawernator]

How bad can this get? Will it result in permit revocation?

Guy was pulled over with ccw permit, carrying a firearm that was not on the permit (yet). He had already filled out an application for weapons modification, he did not go into qualify with it yet, and was not issued new replacement permit with new firearm on there. He claims he was not aware of needing to re-qualify; and was completely unaware. He thought filing out the DOJ form for weapons modification was good enough.

Leo that pulled him over for the minor stop, confiscated, and wrote him a ticket. I’m guessing the officer actually checked his firearm then if it got tot the point of cross referencing with what was listed on his permit.

I told him this looks very bad on your part; and the best he can do is try to get the charge dropped.

You think he might get his permit revoked even if he discloses to his IA? I noticed in the policy it doesn’t state anything about disclosing Leo contact. But in SB2, it is stated; correct?

You think the Leo already contacted his IA?

Can this result in prohibition of owning firearms?

Won't result in prohibition of owning firearms if convicted as a misdemeanor and not a felony. I have a misdemeanor for poss of an AW when I was active duty in the military because California Democrats hate you/me. Didn't affect my CCW at all or right to own firearms. I did not even lose my TS/SCI security clearance, amazingly tbh, I guess the DODCAF thought the charge was BS and found in my favor. Only felonies, federal crimes you can be sent to 1+ year in prison for, dishonorable discharge or Misdemeanor DV ban you etc.

Seems like something you should self report since they will find out anyways. Maybe beg for mercy, idk. How did your "friend" get his gun searched and taken from a traffic stop?

They won't just drop it most likely, which county? Bay Area is hard left so he would probably be fked unless he is very sympathetic of a defendant like I was with an expensive lawyer and a good looking young guy in the military, in my case they did diversion and the DA accepted me doing a firearms safety class through the Navy, which I did online in our portal lol. He needs to be ready to drop 5k+ minimum for this fk up.