Closed AMA AMA is Live — Matthew Cubeiro, Partner at Michel & Associates / CRPA | California 2A Law & Litigation

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Mr. Cubeiro,

Mr. Cubeiro,

I’m reading through court documents with Michel and associates, working with Franklin armory in the lawsuit regarding the title 1 other firearm, the “other” option became available; but CA DOj only made it available in the new dealer inventory long gun section of the DES system. Has the case stopped? What happened? How come they didn’t do a new dealer inventory handgun other?

So, a stripped receiver that is dros as new dealer inventory long gun “other”, which is not considered long gun rifle; what are the options when it comes to builds besides crew serve? On the 4473 with the feds, an other is considered a receiver only; a virgin which can go both ways, pistol or rifle. Only with California, is it filed as a long gun other; long gun other being it hasn’t even been built into a rifle yet.

New dealer inventory long gun Rifle can not be built into pistol because that would be California’s version of an SBR; but what about other? If a new dealer inventory long gun other was built into pistol; would that be considered a California version of an SBR? Can we build the AOW route from new dealer inventory long gun other; after filing for the AOW paperwork with the Feds?

Left this one out?

 

[Coolguy]

In general, California's roster only applies to point of sales by licensed dealers to non-exempt individuals. Ownership and possession of handguns not on the roster is entirely unrelated to the restriction. And if you think about it that makes sense. Best example would be someone that purchased a gun on the roster however many years ago, but that gun is no longer in production today. Naturally, the manufacturer is not going to pay a renewal fee to keep that gun listed when they don't make it anymore.

Just as getting the gun engraved, re-coated, installing a new sight, etc., has no bearing.

CA DOJ has recently been putting up more roadblocks to exempt individuals (namely active duty LEO) selling their off-roster guns in PPTs to non-exempt individuals. By way of example- https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/notice-of-law-enforcement-sales-transfers-of-unsafe-handguns

I would like to revisit this question: Is it against the law for the person purchasing a SSE pistol and then convert a SSE pistol into a semi auto once the buyer completes their DROS and takes possession of it? By converting, I mean installing a new upper, connecting gas tube, barrel, etc. So if a person purchased a SSE handgun that came with a funky super long barrel to make it single shot and then took it home and dropped in a new barrel allowing it to function as a semi auto would they be in violation of the law? If they purchased an AR pistol from a dealer that was single shot with no gas tube or gas block installed, and then took it home and changed the upper to be a functioning semi auto upper on their registered pistol lower but was still in pistol configuration (no stock, Juggernaut Tactical Hellfighter, no flash hider, no vertical grip, etc) , would that be breaking the law?

 

[jnorr]

Any cases seeing if new sensitive places are being enforced? Ex: Parks?

 

[DangItBobby]

Hi Mr. Cubeiro,

What are the legalities of removing a magazine disconnect from a firearm? Are there any legal repercussions in doing so for a firearm you plan on using in for self defense. Are there differences, for example, if you were to remove one for your ccw versus one you just use for home defense?

Thank you for time!

 

[CadeH]

Mr. Cubeiro,

I’m reading through court documents with Michel and associates, working with Franklin armory in the lawsuit regarding the title 1 other firearm, the “other” option became available; but CA DOj only made it available in the new dealer inventory long gun section of the DES system. Has the case stopped? What happened? How come they didn’t do a new dealer inventory handgun other?

So, a stripped receiver that is dros as new dealer inventory long gun “other”, which is not considered long gun rifle; what are the options when it comes to builds besides crew serve? On the 4473 with the feds, an other is considered a receiver only; a virgin which can go both ways, pistol or rifle. Only with California, is it filed as a long gun other; long gun other being it hasn’t even been built into a rifle yet.

New dealer inventory long gun Rifle can not be built into pistol because that would be California’s version of an SBR; but what about other? If a new dealer inventory long gun other was built into pistol; would that be considered a California version of an SBR? Can we build the AOW route from new dealer inventory long gun other; after filing for the AOW paperwork with the Feds?

Stripped lowers are legally the exact same thing as PGO shotguns, which people have historically been able to turn into AOWs.

AOWs are not that common though, according to the ATF there are 1609 in California and 81 AOWs were transferred from 2020-2026.


source: FOIA I did a few weeks ago

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Several manufacturers and retailers have participated and/or supported our Boland v. Bonta lawsuit, which has resulted in many recent additions to the roster.

I expect that when the new microstamping requirements take effect, we will see a similar push. But that is not directly tied to the roster itself any longer.

So the microstamping law also requires the special firing pins to actually be available, are there any manufacturers actually doing that?

By July 1, 2027, DOJ must determine: (1) whether microstamping components are available at commercially reasonable prices from licensees producing microstamping components, and (2) whether “options of microstamping-enabled firearms are readily available for purchase” in California. (Pen. Code § 27532(e).) Once DOJ determines that either or both of these criteria are met, DOJ must publish a list of all licensees producing microstamping components that meet the microstamping performance standards and “shall notify licensed firearms dealers, gunsmiths, and manufacturers operating within the State of California of the list of available microstamping component producers.” (Pen. Code § 27532(f).)

 

[treelogger]

We're just about wrapping this up 24 hours for the AMA!

Thank you to Matt, and to you for organizing it!

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Mr. Cubeiro,

I’m reading through court documents with Michel and associates, working with Franklin armory in the lawsuit regarding the title 1 other firearm, the “other” option became available; but CA DOj only made it available in the new dealer inventory long gun section of the DES system. Has the case stopped? What happened? How come they didn’t do a new dealer inventory handgun other?

So, a stripped receiver that is dros as new dealer inventory long gun “other”, which is not considered long gun rifle; what are the options when it comes to builds besides crew serve? On the 4473 with the feds, an other is considered a receiver only; a virgin which can go both ways, pistol or rifle. Only with California, is it filed as a long gun other; long gun other being it hasn’t even been built into a rifle yet.

New dealer inventory long gun Rifle can not be built into pistol because that would be California’s version of an SBR; but what about other? If a new dealer inventory long gun other was built into pistol; would that be considered a California version of an SBR? Can we build the AOW route from new dealer inventory long gun other; after filing for the AOW paperwork with the Feds?

Ahhh man, drive thru window closed; they remembered the burger with no cheese but forgot all about the fries with no salt.

 

[james350]

Turner's is correct here, as CA DOJ is the one enforcing this requirement on PPTs and will cite dealers for violations. See https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/

 

[1911-CV]

James:

Good luck with your quest, you will be fighting the 'good fight', but Turner's has a system that works for them and they do it the same way every time. It keeps the DOJ happy and makes them a ton of money every year selling 50-cent locks for $6 (I'm not up on their current prices). The exception may be allowable, and make their policy less defensible, but I am not optimistic that they will change.

Of course, if you are successful, how about tackling releasing on undetermined next??

 

[james350]

 

[treelogger]

The Governor serves in an executive function, so they could not repeal or amend a law absent approval from the legislature. But they could indeed enact policy that reflects pro-2A positions. A good example would be to direct CA DOJ to enact new or replace existing regulations on various firearm-related issues.

Allow me to agree while disagreeing. Indeed, the governor can direct all other department heads, even those that are directly elected. That is a matter of law, and enshrined in the California constitution. But they can not order them to break the law or ignore the law. Not even administrative law, such as unilaterally changing regulation without the required process. And within the narrow confines of what the legislature has done, there is not much wiggle room for the AG and DoJ to create gun-friendly regulation. That is a matter of politics, not of law.

And while there are occasional DoJ regulations that are explicitly illegal (such as the recent example of requiring an FFL number to get a CoE, or the OLL assault weapon regulation that got Gene Hoffman and the Calguns Foundation started), those are typically challenged with the OAL anyway, albeit slowly.

Furthermore, a governor that is explicitly not in line with the rest of the state government (for example if Chad Bianco were elected governor, which until about a week ago was a possibility) would not get any assistance in their quixotic quest to make California gun-friendly without changing any laws. In particular not from a progressive democratic AG.

 

[james350]

AND it's Federal law - 18 USC 922 (z) - that requires an FFL to demand a 'safety device' for handguns. BATF will not accept the CA Affidavit for that requirement, though it should be fine all over CA for long guns.

OK, then I can bring the lock with me right?

 

[CadeH]

OK, then I can bring the lock with me right?

No because there isn't an exemption in the law for already possessing a lock

 

[NaboombuLagoon]

OK, then I can bring the lock with me right?

Pretty sure you have to have a receipt showing the lock was purchased within the prior 10 days.

 

[james350]

you’re wrong. I just looked it up. You can go to Z and it refers you back to another section which includes a gun safe as well as other devices to secure the firearm.. gun safe is good to go for the safety device from the state as well as the feds done deal.. says nothing about buying one at purchase as well so obviously if you had a gun lock with you, that would be fine or you can fill out the form that says you have a gun safe under penalty of perjury

 

[james350]

Pretty sure you have to have a receipt showing the lock was purchased within the prior

 

[james350]

DOJ says 30 days on their website, but the exemption could override it. If you have a safe, you use your affidavit stating you have the safe.

 

[james350]

Approved lockbox or gun safe or enclosed container with a padlock or combination lock is the same as those gun cable locks they’re trying to sell every day.. if you take the time to read carefully, the federal regulation and California regulation you will find that every time a gun safe with the affidavit will prevail for this argument

 

[NaboombuLagoon]

you’re wrong. I just looked it up. You can go to Z and it refers you back to another section which includes a gun safe as well as other devices to secure the firearm.. gun safe is good to go for the safety device from the state as well as the feds done deal.. says nothing about buying one at purchase as well so obviously if you had a gun lock with you, that would be fine or you can fill out the form that says you have a gun safe under penalty of perjury

I don't know what "go to Z" means. There is no subsection Z in PC 23635. I was wrong about the 10 days, though. You have to have a receipt showing it was purchased within the last 30 days.