Selling my C&R collection. 5 transactions per year?

[C&RTrader]

Just a heads up, I am selling most of my collection. I just put up a listing here in the C&R section.

I just wanted to confirm that the 5 transactions per year limit also includes sales to 03/COE holders? Not just PPTs?
assuming that is correct this is more a gripe about how long it will take to sell these.

I assume antique rifles are exempt from this since they are not firearms?

 

[Dvrjon]

The statutes don’t carry an exception for sales to 03/COE holders. But, 03/COE holders can purchase up to 3 more than 3 modern firearms in one transaction. Antiques are excluded from the sales limits as they are not firearms.

CA PEN 26500.​

(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless the person has been issued a license pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

CA PEN 26520.​

(a) Section 26500 does not apply to the infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.

(b) As used in this section, “infrequent” has the meaning provided in Section 16730.

CA PEN 16730.​

(a) As used in Section 31815 and in Division 6 (commencing with Section 26500) of Title 4, “infrequent” means both of the following are true:

(1) The person conducts less than six transactions per calendar year.

(2) The person sells, leases, or transfers no more than 50 total firearms per calendar year.

(b) As used in this section, “transaction” means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of firearms.

Antiques are excluded.

CA PEN 16520.​

(a) As used in this part, “firearm” means a device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.[…]
(d) As used in the following provisions, “firearm” does not include an unloaded antique firearm:
(1) Section 16730.

 

[Funjeff]

Someone confirm, but I believe 03+coe holders are exempt from 3 in 30....modern or c&r, no restriction.

 

[Dvrjon]

Someone confirm, but I believe 03+coe holders are exempt from 3 in 30....modern or c&r, no restriction.

You’re right. Sat morning slow brain.

 

[treelogger]

Try to find people who buy multiple guns per transaction. Given that each extra transaction ends up costing you 1/5th of a year, you could give a discount. Economics tells me that it should be 1/5th of the prevailing interest rate; if I assume that to be 5% (just to keep the math easy), that's a 1% discount. Which is ridiculous. So maybe being a rational economic actor isn't the right move here.

 

[AR15barrels]

Someone confirm, but I believe 03+coe holders are exempt from 3 in 30....modern or c&r, no restriction.

Correct.

 

[cali_jazz]

Just a heads up, I am selling most of my collection. I just put up a listing here in the C&R section.

I just wanted to confirm that the 5 transactions per year limit also includes sales to 03/COE holders? Not just PPTs?
assuming that is correct this is more a gripe about how long it will take to sell these.

I assume antique rifles are exempt from this since they are not firearms?

5 transactions and up to 50 guns regardless of the buyer's designation, the limit is on you, not them. The issue is more than 5 ostensibly makes you a firearms dealer "engaging in the business" of selling firearms without a license. Since FFL-03/COE are exempt from the purchase limits, you want to sell to COE holders who will buy more than 3 guns at a time. Since non FFL-03/COE's are limited to 3 in 30, the maximum number of guns you could sell collectively to them would be 15 (5 x 3).

There is a loophole option that allows to consign your sell your collection in bulk to a California-licensed firearms dealer (FFL). Since they are licensed sellers, they can sell some or all of your guns without transaction limits.

You could also sell to an out-of-state FFL dealer or nationwide firearms auction house.

If you have an FFL-03/COE and your buyer does as well, you can sell direct to them without the need for an FFL. They would have to log the purchase in their books accordingly.

 

[C&RTrader]

If you have an FFL-03/COE and your buyer does as well, you sell direct to them without the need for an FFL. They would have to log the purchase in their books accordingly.

I didn't think I still needed an 03/coe as the seller so long as the buyer did? Mine expired 8 or 9 years ago. This is for c&r long guns only. I know modern and even c&r handguns need at 01 ffl.

 

[tradersarmory]

I believe selling C&R rifles to another FFL03 & COE holder and meeting in person to do the transaction does not count against the seller's 5 gun sale transactions a year. The buyer still has to submit their acquisition on CFARS.

 

[cali_jazz]

I believe selling C&R rifles to another FFL03 & COE holder and meeting in person to do the transaction does not count against the seller's 5 gun sale transactions a year. The buyer still has to submit their acquisition on CFARS.

It does count against the seller's 5 gun sale transactions

Why Face-to-Face Has Zero Impact on the Cap:
California law tracks two completely different things:

1. The Location Rule: Usually, all personal gun sales must happen inside a licensed gun store (FFL). The FFL03/COE exemption allows you to bypass the gun store counter and do the transfer face-to-face at a private location.
2. The Volume Rule: The state limits all unlicensed sellers to less than 6 transactions per year. Because an FFL03 is a Collector license and not a Dealer license, the state still counts you as an unlicensed seller.

Bypassing the gun store counter does not erase the volume limit. A face-to-face sale is still a transaction in the eyes of California law.

• For the Buyer: Having an FFL03 and COE gives the buyer powerful privileges. They are exempt from the 3-in-30 purchase limit, they can bypass the 10-day wait on C&R guns, and under Penal Code § 27966, they can take direct, in-person delivery of C&R long guns without a dealer.
• For the Seller: California law provides no specific exemption for an FFL03 collector to sell firearms frequently. Because an FFL03 is strictly a federal Collector license, not a Dealer license, the California Department of Justice still views you as an unlicensed individual regarding sales volume.

Therefore, you remain bound by the "infrequent" definition in Penal Code § 16730, restricting you to less than 6 transactions (a maximum of 5) and no more than 50 total firearms per calendar year.

 

[tradersarmory]

I does count against the seller's 5 gun sale transactions

Why Face-to-Face Has Zero Impact on the Cap:
California law tracks two completely different things:

1. The Location Rule: Usually, all personal gun sales must happen inside a licensed gun store (FFL). The FFL03/COE exemption allows you to bypass the gun store counter and do the transfer face-to-face at a private location.
2. The Volume Rule: The state limits all unlicensed sellers to less than 6 transactions per year. Because an FFL03 is a Collector license and not a Dealer license, the state still counts you as an unlicensed seller.

Bypassing the gun store counter does not erase the volume limit. A face-to-face sale is still a transaction in the eyes of California law.

• For the Buyer: Having an FFL03 and COE gives the buyer powerful privileges. They are exempt from the 3-in-30 purchase limit, they can bypass the 10-day wait on C&R guns, and under Penal Code § 27966, they can take direct, in-person delivery of C&R long guns without a dealer.
• For the Seller: California law provides no specific exemption for an FFL03 collector to sell firearms frequently. Because an FFL03 is strictly a federal Collector license, not a Dealer license, the California Department of Justice still views you as an unlicensed individual regarding sales volume.

Therefore, you remain bound by the "infrequent" definition in Penal Code § 16730, restricting you to less than 6 transactions (a maximum of 5) and no more than 50 total firearms per calendar year.

That makes sense under the california penal codes. I remember doing an acquisition once under my personal 03 and CFARS not asking anything more other than how i aquired the long gun. They didn't ask for any personal information relevant to the seller. I assume that california's firearms database would track all of this if the seller has the firearm registered with DOJ.

 

[treelogger]

The penal code question is not how it is tracked; it is how many transactions you do as a seller.

 

[joefrank64k]

I didn't think I still needed an 03/coe as the seller so long as the buyer did? Mine expired 8 or 9 years ago. This is for c&r long guns only. I know modern and even c&r handguns need at 01 ffl.

The seller does not need an 03+COE for FtF C&R long gun sales, just the buyer.

 

[cali_jazz]

The seller does not need an 03+COE for FtF C&R long gun sales, just the buyer.

Correct. My mistake. Seller does not need and 03/COE to bypass FFL. Edited my post accordingly.

 

[CadeH]

The state also considers consignments to be part of your 5 transactions per year because its a PPT, but the buyer also has to pay the 11% tax on it because its a gun store sale. Not entirely sure how its a PPT in the way that screws you over but is also not a PPT in the way that screws the buyer over too but it just is.

 

[cali_jazz]

The state also considers consignments to be part of your 5 transactions per year because its a PPT, but the buyer also has to pay the 11% tax on it because its a gun store sale. Not entirely sure how its a PPT in the way that screws you over but is also not a PPT in the way that screws the buyer over too but it just is.

I stand corrected again. A bulk sale to an FFL would be an option, not consignment.

Apologies for the incorrect information

 

[CadeH]

I stand corrected again. A bulk sale to an FFL would be an option, not consignment.

Apologies for the incorrect information

Only thing to keep in mind is that selling them to an FFL counts as a transaction too, so you can't do 5 PPTs then sell the rest to a gun store.

 

[C&RTrader]

If had 6 people who wanted single rifles and one of them was a friend of an 01FFL, could I sell 6 at once to the 01FFL who turns around and sells them to the individual 6 people? not exactly a PPT but a single sale to an 01 to turns around to 6 waiting buyers? not sure I love that idea but i was curious. Mechanically it seems the same as selling a bunch of stuff at once to an 01 that is an auction house?

 

[AR15barrels]

The penal code question is not how it is tracked; it is how many transactions you do as a seller.

I don't think it's tracked very well.
There are unlicensed individuals who sell 10+ guns a year via PPT, every year, and never get contacted about the 5 gun limit.
I believe this is a law that relies on the "honor system" for it's enforcement.

That's not to say that a database query could not be run someday and they could enforce the law ex-post-facto.

 

[AR15barrels]

If had 6 people who wanted single rifles and one of them was a friend of an 01FFL, could I sell 6 at once to the 01FFL who turns around and sells them to the individual 6 people? not exactly a PPT but a single sale to an 01 to turns around to 6 waiting buyers? not sure I love that idea but i was curious. Mechanically it seems the same as selling a bunch of stuff at once to an 01 that is an auction house?

Yes.
The FFL will have to charge sales tax and the extra 11% on each of the individual sales though so the guns just got ~20% more expensive to the buyers compared to PPT.