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If you use force to defend yourself , know how to respond to officers questions

ZeroFoxGiven

Lord Flaherty of the High Plains
CAguns Supporter
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This attorney hits the nail on the head if you ever have to use force.

Funny cops try to elicit a statement from you immediately already knowing the effects and mental/physical issues you will be struggling with.

I say this, because LEO unions tell their officers this exact same thing and do not give statements until at least the next day at earliest to ensure a night sleep, and cool down period of nerves, memory, etc.
 
I'm 100% pro cop I'm also not stupid. Say NOTHING...... I mean if you wanna pop off with "I was in fear for my life or someone else's" .. otherwise I wouldn't say squat to anyone but a lawyer.


popcorn 2.webp
 
It's situations like these that are the entire reason why the 5th Amendment was created in the first place. (God bless the founding fathers frfr)
 
First call after an altercation is 911 letting them know what happened and that someone was shot, never specifying anything more than that. Second call is to a lawyer.
 
Some may feel compelled to confide to an officer or feel the need to justify their actions. The fact of the matter is that the officer is not your friend nor your emotional tampon. Practice thinking to yourself, "I need my lawyer." That way you train your brain to not mouth dump after something chaotic, traumatic, scary, etc.
 
A professional attorney makes a YT video that comes across as a used car salesman- no thanks. Nonstop hand gestures, everything in writing in massive font/bold/circus colors. I bailed after 60 seconds.
 
A professional attorney makes a YT video that comes across as a used car salesman- no thanks. Nonstop hand gestures, everything in writing in massive font/bold/circus colors. I bailed after 60 seconds.
That’s unfortunate, because despite the low production value he explains law very clearly and is on point in giving advice to protecting yourself legally.
 
This same question always seems to come up on discussion forums every few months and the points made rarely change. There is a lot of bogus information often contained. The simple bottom line is that one should look to how Law Enforcement Officers are trained to respond when they're involved in a defensive shooting. The criminal liabilities for a LEO and a non-LEO involved in a shooting are essentially the same. The civil liabilities are different.

I spent several years maintaining my agency's operational policies, and have studied those of many other agencies. With the exception of New York City, nearly all major agencies have similar polices. The NYPD is close, but theirs is influenced by a history of labor-law issues. The policies are mainly driven by three factors:

1) There is a long history of folks (LEO and non-LEO) making excited and poorly deliberated statements when under the stress that accompanies a shooting. It's a normal human reaction and you need to provide for it. Once a statement is made, you can't pull it back. When you make a statement, you need to consider what it says, what it doesn't say, and how it can be taken out of context.

2) A shooting will produce an emergency response. It's not over when the last shot is fired. The suspect likely put you in jeopardy (why else would you use force), but if you fired, you also put folks in the area in jeopardy. The Supreme Court has ruled (refer to New York v Quarles) that some information is so time-critical to the processing of a shooting scene that it outweighs the "right to silence". That is commonly understood to be the number of rounds fired and their direction, the number and location of suspects and witness, and the location of key evidence.

3) There is an old adage that "Information comes three ways: fast, accurate, and complete. You can have any two of these." At the scene we deal with "fast and accurate." As the investigation moves on, we shift to the "accurate" and "complete."

So here's the common post-shooting policy that results from the above: 1) Manage the scene until help arrives. 2) Give a short, concise, statement of the urgent information covered by Quarles (commonly called the "Public Safety Statement'). 3) Decline to discuss any other aspect of the shooting until you have recovered from the event and have conferred with counsel. You're not refusing to answer questions, you're only postponing the discussion to a proper place and time. That's what LEOs do after a shooting, and it's what you should also do.

Here's a couple of points that often come up in discussion:

1) You're probably not going to be arrested. During by 30+ years of working, I've responded, or supervised the response to, around 30 cases of defensive shootings (14 of them being LEOs). None of the victims was arrested. An arrest requires the establishment of "Probable Cause." You can't make a lawful arrest simply because there has been a shooting. We really do not like making an immediate arrest in major cases and will typically do so only if there is a risk of flight, or if the quality of investigation would be compromised if the arrest were not immediately made. Once an arrest is made, we only have 48 hours to submit the case for a Gerstein Hearing, and the case has to go to trial within 60 days of the arraignment (if still in custody and time not waived). Those are difficult time limits to meet. We're not gonna back ourselves into that corner if we don't have to.

2) You don't necessarily have a "Right to Remain Silent." That right is derived from the Fifth Amendment's provision that no person can be compelled to be a witness against themselves in a criminal matter. But you don't need a "Right" to remain silent. You get to the same conclusion when you realize that there is no legal compulsion to speak. The difference is when you consider the application of Salinas v Texas (more on that later). The key point is that the "Right to Remain Silent" is a conditional right. It only applies where there is a criminal matter. You don't need a "Right" to silence, you remain silent simply because you choose to.

3) The LEO responding to the scene is neither your friend, or your enemy. They're there to bring order, and to initiate the investigative process. Whether they ultimately take "friendly" or "unfriendly" actions toward you will depend upon their evaluation of the evidence (remember that "Fast, Accurate, and Complete" thing).

4) A lot of pundits can provide examples of folks getting into trouble for what they say, but you can also get into a lot of trouble for not saying what you need to say, The Salinas case involved a defendant who was in conversation with LEOs, and who then became silent when the line of conversation turned. The court allowed the prosecution to use that silence as evidence of guilt. There's a lot of legal interplay between the "Right to Silence" (derived from the 5th Amendment) and "Your silence can be used against you" (derived from Salinas). That interplay is best left to your attorney. Stick to the LEO policy and you'll avoid the issue.

5) IMHO, one of the worst things that you can say at the scene is "I was in fear for my life", or anything similar. There is no urgency to that issue. It doesn't fall under the Quarles criteria. The reasons why you applied force, and your state of mind when doing so, are matters that should await your conference with counsel. But if you should elect to make such a statement, here's where it can get you into trouble: The statement invites the question as to "why were you in fear for your life?" If you respond, stand by for a continuing line of questions (which will be recorded). If you go silent, then stand by for that silence to be used as an inference of guilt under Salinas. Why even go down that road if you don't have to?

6) If you elect to carry, do some advance preparation. As a Field Training Officer, I'd occasionally toss the radio microphone to the trainee officer, describe some emergent event and then say "Don't key the mike, but put out the broadcast." The first time it would sound pretty horrible, the tenth time, it would sound pretty good. Do the mental gymnastics and practice the art of articulation. When you read of shooting events, practice what you would, and more importantly what you would not, put in your "public safety statement."
 
Last edited:
Also another oldie but goodie here:
Don't ever talk to the police.
 
This same question always seems to come up on discussion forums every few months and the points made rarely change. There a lot of bogus information often contained. The simple bottom line is that one should look to how Law Enforcement Officers are trained to respond when they're involved in a defensive shooting. The criminal liabilities for a LEO and a non-LEO involved in a shooting are essentially the same. The civil liabilities are different.

I spent several years maintaining my agency's operational policies, and have studied those of many other agencies. With the exception of New York City, nearly all major agencies have similar polices. The NYPD is close, but theirs is influenced by a history of labor-law issues. The policies are mainly driven by three factors:

1) There is a long history of folks (LEO and non-LEO) making excited and poorly deliberated statements when under the stress that accompanies a shooting. It's a normal human reaction and you need to provide for it. Once a statement is made, you can't pull it back. When you make a statement, you need to consider what it says, what it doesn't say, and how it can be taken out of context.

2) A shooting will produce an emergency response. It's not over when the last shot is fired. The suspect likely put you in jeopardy (why else would you use force), but if you fired, you also put folks in the area in jeopardy. The Supreme Court has ruled (refer to New York v Quarles) that some information is so time-critical to the processing of a shooting scene that it outweighs the "right to silence". That is commonly understood to be the number of rounds fired and their direction, the number and location of suspects and witness, and the location of key evidence.

3) There is an old adage that "Information comes three ways: fast, accurate, and complete. You can have any two of these." At the scene we deal with "fast and accurate." As the investigation moves on, we shift to the "accurate" and "complete."

So here's the common post-shooting policy that results from the above: 1) Manage the scene until help arrives. 2) Give a short, concise, statement of the urgent information covered by Quarles (commonly called the "Public Safety Statement'). 3) Decline to discuss any other aspect of the shooting until you have recovered from the event and have conferred with counsel. You're not refusing to answer questions, you're only postponing the discussion to a proper place and time. That's what LEOs do after a shooting, and it's what you should also do.

Here's a couple of points that often come up in discussion:

1) You're probably not going to be arrested. During by 30+ years of working, I've responded, or supervised the response to, around 30 cases of defensive shootings (14 of them being LEOs). None of the victims was arrested. An arrest requires the establishment of "Probable Cause." You can't make a lawful arrest simply because there has been a shooting. We really do not like making an immediate arrest in major cases and will typically do so only if there is a risk of flight, or if the quality of investigation would be compromised if the arrest were not immediately made. Once an arrest is made, we only have 48 hours to submit the case for a Gerstein Hearing, and the case has to go to trial within 60 days of the arraignment (if still in custody and time not waived). Those are difficult time limits to meet. We're not gonna back ourselves into that corner if we don't to.

2) You don't necessarily have a "Right to Remain Silent." That right is derived from the Fifth Amendment's provision that no person can be compelled to be a witness against themselves in a criminal matter. But you don't need a "Right" to remain silent. You get to the same conclusion when you realize that there is no legal compulsion to speak. The difference is when you consider the application of Salinas v Texas (more on that later). The key point is that the "Right to Remain Silent" is a conditional right. It only applies where there is a criminal matter. You don't need a "Right" to silence, you remain silent simply because you choose to.

3) The LEO responding to the scene is neither your friend, or your enemy. They're there to bring order, and to initiate the investigative process. Whether they ultimately take "friendly" or "unfriendly" actions toward you will depend upon their evaluation of the evidence (remember that "Fast, Accurate, and Complete" thing).

4) A lot of pundits can provide examples of folks getting into trouble for what they say, but you can also get into a lot of trouble for not saying what you need to say, The Salinas case involved a defendant who was in conversation with LEOs, and who then became silent when the line of conversation turned. The court allowed the prosecution to use that silence as evidence of guilt. There's a lot of legal interplay between the "Right to Silence" (derived from the 5th Amendment) and "Your silence can be used against you" (derived from Salinas). That interplay is best left to your attorney. Stick to the LEO policy and you'll avoid the issue.

5) IMHO, one of the worst things that you can say at the scene is "I was in fear for my life", or anything similar. There is no urgency to that issue. It doesn't fall under the Quarles criteria. The reasons why you applied force, and your state of mind when doing so, are matters that should await your conference with counsel. But if you should elect to make such a statement, here's where it can get you into trouble: The statement invites the question as to "why were you in fear for your life?" If you respond, stand by for a continuing line of questions (which will be recorded). If you go silent, then stand by for that silence to be used as an inference of guilt under Salinas. Why even go down that road if you don't have to?

6) If you elect to carry, do some advance preparation. As a Field Training Officer, I'd occasionally toss the radio microphone to the trainee officer, describe some emergent event and then say "Don't key the mike, but put out the broadcast." The first time it would sound pretty horrible, the tenth time, it would sound pretty good. Do the mental gymnastics and practice the art of articulation. When you read of shooting events, practice what you would, and more importantly what you would not, put in your "public safety statement."
I'd add;
1. If prudent and safe- put the gun away before the cops arrive- don't leave it laying on the ground, in your hand or on your person.
Lock it in your car under the seat/otherwise out of easy view (so bystanders don't "help").
2. Inform the officer that's where it is
3. Don't be a 🍆. There's enough going on, know a pissy attitude isn't going to help you or anyone else.
4. Print Rick's advice on a card/in your phone so you can refer to it.
 
As always Rick, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. This wisdom does indeed help shine light to the indirect processes that go into play when a shooting does occur.
 
I tend to enjoy Massad Ayoob's videos. He may be biased as a former police officer but he does have some valid points. He argues that you can and should provide basic information upon initial contact with police before invoking your right to silence. Linked his video below.

 
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